The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 381  4562 20-Aug-1992 Cynthia Higginb  TCS, planetary assaults, etc (not neces
 381  4563 21-Aug-1992 Adrian Hurt      Re: invading planets << Paul Dale (grue
 381  4564 21-Aug-1992 Cynthia Higginb  My TCS game status... << Joe Block:
 381  4565 21-Aug-1992 Cynthia Higginb  Starship S&T (?) << >Lewis Taylor Goss
 381  4566 21-Aug-1992 "CMD ENS ERIC M  RADAR as weapons, probably not << Thoug
 381  4567 22-Aug-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  Planet Defence << . Paul Dale says putt
 381  4568 22-Aug-1992 Steve Higginbot  Planetary Assaults, reprised... << Adri
 381  4569 22-Aug-1992 PIERRE-LOUIS CO  Reply to Psi << Just for the sake of ar
 381  4570 24-Aug-1992 Pauli            Re: invading planets << Adrian Hurt wri
 381  4571 24-Aug-1992 s3007048@mackay  Re: Reply to Psi << On Saturday, 22nd A

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4562
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:00:40 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TCS, planetary assaults, etc (not necessarily in order...

Bruce:

>Just purchased David Brin's  STARTIDE RISING and UPLIFT WAR.  Only a
>couple of chapters in so far but its good.

>Any other books in the series?

"Sundiver" (the first one chronologically).  I understand that "Sooners"
is coming real soon now...


>2. In a real fleet engagement are we going to see "line up and shoot"
>sort of combat from HIGHGUARD/TCS or is the whole thing going to
>degrade into "one (or many) on one" dogfight combat or is it going to
>be massive formations ala DOC SMITH or is it just an uncoordinated
>"free for all" as in STAR WARS?

It WON'T be "line up and shoot".  In my TCS campaign, about half the
players who have specified use "massive formations", the rest use "one
(or many) on one dogfight combat".  No-one uses "free for all", and
no-one is really depending on line of battle.  Not after Amondiage
attacked Neubayern, ignored casualties long enough to drive THROUGH
Neubayern's defensive line, and bombed the starport off the map...


>3. Once the melee starts and the nukes are a firing away, what sort of
>command control is going to be left.  The LENSMAN series has their
>"tanks" showing all the multi-coloured dots representing ships in
>battle etc.  What sort of  command control would you expect in a "REAL"
>hundred (thousand) ship a side slugfest?

Large Holo Displays would provide wonderful "tanks".  I personally
expect that in a major fleet action, you would have a flagship like the
Terrans used in "People of the Wind" - big and tough enough that no-one
would willingly fight it.  It didn't even TRY to fight, it just acted as
an impregnable command post for coordinating the other ships of the
fleet in a battel that lasted days, and was spread all over a solar
system...


>I like the old HIGHGUARD/TCS methods but would like to hear what your
>thoughts and experiences have been.  I personally competed in some
>strategic level Traveller/HighGuard/TCS campaigns and the "rocks"
>almost always came out on top in a defencive roll but whenever the
>lines of supply were a bit teuous they ran into all sorts of problems.
>These campaigns were for the military minded and not in the Traveller
>Universe (I hope).

There are ways to protect your planets from "dinosaur killers".  Not
many, but a few.  My experience has been that offensive operations were
EXTREMELY difficult, except with the most limited objectives.  Defensive
operations are easy, unless the enemy is content to render your planet
uninhabitable in passing.  Then they are next to impossible.  However,
offensive operations do NOT become easier when sterilizing planets along
the way - you are still a LONG way from repairs/reinforcements even if
every world between here and there glows in the dark...


>4. How do you take a planet from a determined enemy on the ground?
>From experience and observation of various strategic campaigns I've
>seen massive armies obliterated, atmospheres stripped, viral plagues
>applied, radiated rock balls, cometary collisions and simple surrender.

You either sterilize the planet, or don't take it without mind-boggling
casualties.  In my campaign, two worlds have planetary defenses that
make assaults suicidal - they can be destroyed, but not conquered.
Fortunately for one of them, he came to his senses before committing his
planetary assault forces to an invasion of the other...

The other worlds SHOULD have defenses like that.  Some are trying to
build them, some are betting on their fleets.  Previous experience tells
me that the fleets won't be able to do it alone, but one of these bright
young lads might surprise me again...

>Anybody out there played in some Strategic level HighGuard/TCS
>campaigns?

I have run two before this one.  I have played (many years ago) in a few
campaigns of limited scope (a year or so game time)...

								---Steve

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4563
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: invading planets
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 9:30:00 BST

Paul Dale (grue@cs.uq.oz.au) writes:
> Meson gun attacks against population centres until they surrender
> might work as might destroying the industrial potential of the planet.
> But as has been pointed out on this list before, it doesn't take that
> much effort to make a high population planet a fortress in space -- put
> a laser turret into every new building plus some basic passive sensors
> on many building and in many places around the globe and have some of
> the fabled deep meson gun sites.

Problem number one for this sort of defence is that one can easily build
streamlined, heavily armoured ships that will snigger at lasers.

Problem number two is that it will probably be impossible.  Try imagining
the same idea converted into real life, present day.  "It doesn't take much
effort to make the U.S.A. into one huge fortress - put an AA gun onto every
new building plus some basic sensors on many buildings and in many places
around the country, and have a few ICBM silos."  Then imagine a politician
trying to get elected with a promise to fit every house with its own 20mm
cannon, along with a tax bill to pay for it.  Of course, the fact that the
U.S.A. isn't actually at war with anyone (yet) makes such a proposal
difficult, but if you wait until you are at war, it will be too late.  The
same goes for the high-tech planet.

Of course, a dictatorship could implement such a policy more easily, as
long as the dictator trusted the people not to take over all those guns
and have a revolution - which they might be inclined to do, given the
taxes the dictator has just levied.  You'll note that even Saddam Hussein
doesn't have AAA on every building in Baghdad.

The first thing an invader would probably do is try to find all the planet's
power sources using his neutrino sensors, and give them all some free mesons.
If the invader doesn't have both the technology and the big force needed to
do this, he can probably forget the invasion anyway, because the defender's
SDB force will deal with him before he gets near the planet.  Without power,
those deep site meson guns are just holes in the ground.

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4564
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:05:40 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: My TCS game status...

Joe Block:

>Steve, I have a request about your TCS campaign.  Would you be willing
>to post information that any player in the game's spies would have
>heard?  I'm referring to incidents like the starport trashing you
>mentioned in one of your recent TML posts.  I, at least, am interested
>in finding out how the war is going.  Also, I vaguely recall you
>mentioning that you had prepared a Jane's Fighting Ships document with
>(not necessarily accurate) information that all the players know about
>the other fleets.  If I'm not misremembering things and you still have
>a copy, would you please email it to me, as I am interested in what
>strategies the various players chose for their ship designs.

	Well, if no-one thinks it would be a waste of bandwidth, I'll start
posting such whenever they get all the way across the Islands...

	As to the "war", it's over.  More or less.  Maybe.  But the *other*
war seems to be heating up.

	The starport bombing incident was actually two separate incidents.
Early in "the war" (Officially the Old Islands War.  The "other war" is
officially the Topas War (names assigned by players, but made "official"
by my use of them in my records)), Amondiage sent two fleets out to raid
the enemy home systems.  In Neubayern, the fleet appeared at the 100
diameter limit, accelerated toward the planet, fought the Neubayern
Fleet in passing, and carried out a nuclear bombardment of the starport,
associated shipyards, and associated industries.  They then jumped away
(those that were able).  The entire attack lasted 154 minutes from the
appearance of the raiding force to the jump of the last ships.  In this
time, they killed around 200,000,000 people who had the misfortune to
live near a target area, and reduced Neubayern's starport to "B", and
shipyard capacity by half.
	At about the same time (one day earlier by my records), the second
Amondiage fleet arrived in New Home system, and engaged the New Home
System Squadron.  Since most of New Home's fleet was elsewhere (beating
up on Sansterre's fleet in St Genevieve), the System Squadron was
soundly trounced.  Then about one-half Amondiage's survivors carried out
a raid against New Home's starport exactly like that against
Neubayern's.  Differences:  New Home has IMPRESSIVE planetary defenses.
All but a handful of the attacking ships were destroyed, though not
before New Home's starport/shipyards/industries were trashed to a degree
similar to those on Neubayern.
	Simultaneously (as much as such is possible over interstellar
distances, which is to say *NOT*), New Home and Neubayern's main fleets
were pounding Sansterre's fleet into grape jelly at St Genevieve.
	One week later, Sansterre's System Squadron was defeated by a
combined attack force from New Home and Neubayern, and Sansterre
surrendered.
	Two weeks after that, Amondiage's fleets caught Neubayern's 2nd
Strike, 3rd, 4th, and 2nd Assault Fleets dispersed throughout St
Genevieve system, and trounced them, capturing a *whole bunch of ships*
(details must be kept secret, as not all affected players know the full
truth of that engagement yet).

	Shortly thereafter, the warring parties agreed to a cease-fire, and
met on New Home to discuss terms of a permanent Armistice.  During the
ensuing discussions, the players completely lost their grips on reality,
and ironed out an Alliance, but forgot to do the Armistice.  So New
Home, Neubayern and Sansterre are now allies, even though technically
they are still at war with each other.  Amondiage is technically at war
with New Home, Neubayern, and, by extension, their Alliance.  So,
technically, Amondiage is at war with his ally Sansterre, too.

	The Topas War isn't really much of a war.  Serendip Belt grabbed
Topas from Neubayern (who grabbed it early in the game), and the two of
them have squabbled about it since.  Serendip Belt's army is busy
grinding up Neubayern's army on Topas, and there has been only one fleet
action.  When Serendip Belt attacked Neubayern's army on Topas,
Neubayern's Topas System Squadron (as opposed to Serendip Belt's Topas
System Squadron, and New Colchis' Topas System Squadron) attacked the
Belter force in an attempt to insert some fighters into the ground
battle (so as to keep Serendip Belt from totally controlling the air
over the battlefield).  The fighters were successfully inserted, and
both forces suffered heavy losses.  Neubayern's Topas System Squadron
was forced out of Topas system as well...

	As to "Jane's", I am currently putting together the 5628 issue,
which will include more information about the ships that actually
fought, as well as information about the new ships being built at
various yards around the Islands.  I'll send you a copy when I get
done.  Which may be several weeks yet.  Patience.  I won't forget...

						---Steve

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4565
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:06:03 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Starship S&T (?)

>Lewis Taylor Goss

>On the issue of what vessels to place in the line of battle initially,
>I would deploy a limited number of capital ships plus a substantial
>number of escort and fighter craft, holding my main force of capital
>ships and cruisers in the ready reserve.  If the enemy responds with
>his capital ships, the escorts and fighters will cause such damage as
>they can, while my capital ships remain undamaged.  Therefore, when I
>at a later time do comit my capital ships to my line of battle, they
>will have the advantage over the enemy's vessels.  On the other hand,
>if the enemy refuses to place his main force in the line of  battle, I
>will commit a limited number of heavy ships plus a much larger number
>of smaller fry to attempt to break through the enemy's line of battle
>and attack his ready reserve, thus accomplishing the same goal.

You seem to assume that your light stuff can pound his heavies, but that
his can't pound yours.  Isn't there an internal contradiction here?  If
your fighters and escorts can pound his battleships that much, don't you
think his escorts and fighters will do a similiar job on your own
heavies when they are committed?  You also place too strong an emphasis
on specific roles.  You ignore the detail that an enemy ship can fire
PAST your ships into your reserve.  Unless it is out of weapon range of
the main battle.  But that leaves it almost two hours travel from the
battle.  Which is plenty long enough for your "battle line" to get
pounded into scrap while the "reserves" move up to assist.  Keep in mind
that the concept of "reserves" evolved to deal with limited intelligence
on the battlefield.  Since any of your ships can detect any enemy ships
on the battlefield, the need for reserves to counter enemy surprises
goes toward zero.  And enemy weaknesses can be exploited real well by
shifting front-line forces laterally (as was amply demonstrated in
WW1).  In fact, there is seldom any good reason to keep any functional
warship out of combat in HG/MT - all it does is give the enemy local
superiority over the forces you DID commit, without giving you any real
advantage later.  Notice that Games Theory works wonderfully well for
analysing a HG/MT battle, since it assumes that any unit can hit any
other unit in the battle...


Paul Dale:

>As for the dog fight idea, I might expect the smaller ships to go into
>that mode while the larger ones attempted to stay out of range of the
>enemy's big ships.

What is the point of staying out of range of the enemy's big ships, when
by definition that means that his big ships are out of range of your big
ships?  If neither side is willing to risk their big ships in combat,
you might as well save money and never build them in the first place.

"I can't risk *that* ship!  It's my best one!"  --- far too many
						wargamers for my taste.

>I'd put my vote on fleet combats being very short and very bloody.

Unlikely.  When a solar system takes days to weeks to cross, and ship
velocities may be thousands of Km/s different, fights will frequently
last weeks.  Read Poul Anderson's stories set in the Terran Empire or
Polesotechnic League for a good look at battles throughout a solar
system.  And his ships could pull dozens to hundreds of G's.  Traveller
ships can make six, at best...


>Given the lethality of MT ship combat (which is probably
>under-estimated anyway), I cannot see ships enguaging head to head.
>That would be a sure fire mutual kill.  Which isn't often good for
>either side.  I'd expect real combat to be more of the form, detect
>them on passive sensors and blow them away as fast as possible hoping
>that they don't see you in the process.  The only time you'd turn
>active sensors on would be when you detected the enemy using them or
>when you needed them for point defense purposes.

I wouldn't expect to see active sensors at all.  Why bother?  MT makes
passive sensors better than active in every way.  It overlooks or
ignores the deficiencies of passive acquisition, and generally makes
active sensors a waste of time and money.

And now for MY view of "formation".  There are two types of ships worth
having in any combat "formation": big, agile fighters, and small, agile
spinal-mount riders.  Or big, agile fighters and big, agile battleships,
if meson weapons aren't available.  "Formations":  go where you will,
and stomp anyone who gets in front of you.  If you find yourself heading
toward a local concentrationof enemy forces, call on all your brother
and sister ships to help pound them.  Fighters should ALWAYS accompany
battleships/riders, since they can, if properly designed, avoid most
damage while still dishing out a lot.  The battleship/riders are going
to be used to get crits, while the fighters peel the enemy like a grape.

You should not get locked into the idea that the fight is going to be
two small clumps of ships fighting "over near that planet".  The battle
may very well consist of hundreds of small groups spread throughout the
solar system, all trying to get enough local superiority to gain a
little here or there.  And holding your fleet in one big clump that is
too tough to attack mostly means it is in the wrong place, since the
enemy doesn't HAVE to come to you - he can refuel and go on to the next
solar system (remember that there is seldom only ONE refueling spot in a
system).


>Given this formation was being used, what would the chances be of
>building a huge meson screen and a huge nuke damper to protect the
>entire fleet?

	Well, using High Guard, which I have in hand (MT uses essentially
the same power requirements), a meson screen that will encompass a
sphere 5000Km in diameter would require on the close order of 2E19 MW.
Which translates to a fusion plant 1200Km or so in diameter.  I doubt
you can do much with that idea.
	Nuclear Dampers, on the other hand, have a constant power
requirement.  Maybe having one generator on each of two different ships
as far apart in your formation as possible would allow one set of
dampers to protect any ship between the two vessels.  Food for
thought...
						---Steve

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4566
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:25:00 EST
From: "CMD ENS ERIC M. SERGIENKO" <S94SERGIENKO@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: RADAR as weapons, probably not

Thought you'd never ask.  Sorry, I've been, as usual, too busy to
sit down and write a reply, but I did do a quick journal search.

As I understand it, everything that Richard has said to date is correct.
Microwave/radar energy takes a long time to kill a person, say in
contrast to kinetic energy in the form of something like a bullet.
The question is, however, can it screw up your squash (aka your
noggin).

Just like anyo ther tissue, the brain contains water, water heats
up, proteins denature, enzymes and neurotransmitters unravel and
things don't work as well as they used to, right?

This doesn't appear to be borne out by numerous studies carried
out largely by the Soviets (how this ties into our embassy in
Moscow being bombarded with microwave energy during the 70's
is unknown to me :-)).  Incidental exposure to large radar arrays
even at the range of a few meters did not cause any immediate
effects aside from the feeling of warmth.  However, long term
subjective complaints of short term memory loss seem to be borne out
by objective testing.  This conclusion was not supported by all studies.

An interesting case study involved a US Air Force pilot who stood for five
minutes in front of an F-16 which had its radar on.  Again the only
complaint at time of exam was head and neck warmth.  He developed a nodule
on his neck after about three days, and also complained of short term
memory loss.  The short term memory loss was subjective only, and not
supported by testing.  The nodule turned out to be swollen muscle
and cartilage, indicating a cell rupture.

The only death from radar that has been documented occurred in 1957.
The patient died of massive breakdown of the GI tract, and it
took him several days to do so.

SO, at least with TL 8 radar arrays, there does not appear
to be the critical acute effects claimed by Bruce's cohorts.

Now there are some interesting court cases coming up where some
cops are suing their respective departments and a radar gun co.
for causing them to suffer testicular cancer.  This is claimed to
occur because the cops left the radar on while the gun was sitting in
their laps.  Stayed tuned.

In other TML news, I promised to say that Scott Kellogg successfully
reached San Antonio.  He promises to be inflicting us with more
vehicle designs soon.

One of these days (right), I'd like to pursue the bio thread.
People must be really energetic if they want to design an entire
ecosystem.  Especially, if you consider that a lot of PhDs have
spent their lifes studying one niche.  Could be fun :-).

Back to the grind,
ttfn,
eric

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4567
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 21:26:59 -11:00:00
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Planet Defence

 . Paul Dale says putting Laser Turrets on buildings and passive snsors all
 . over the place plus meson silos would be a successful defence.

Hasn't the past couple of weeks of TML mail been discussing shooting "down"
from orbit pointed out that lasers are next to useless in atmosphere?  MT
laser weapons don't appear to do enough damage to deter a detemined attack
and once they're in your atmosphere you really don't want to use your nukes.

The first couple of nukes would be a big morale problem for your population
and the site of enemy ships in the atmosphere would cause panic.


 . Lewis T Goss gives a possible method of carrying out space combats.

The closest thing we have TODAY to 3d combat is aerial dogfights.  If you
add in a carrier then you've got a reserve/coordinator but its not really
safe.  I was once told that there was a major flaw in the US Carrier Fleet
wargame simulations in that Carriers were _unsinkable_.  Sure you could
damage them but not sink them.  My strategy for taking them out would have
been to send out scouts, get a rough idea of where they were based on scout
losses to carrier based fighters and then layout a pattern of ICBMs or Cruise
missiles to ruin there day.  Anyway thats drifted off the topic but the
formations in MT will have to be 3D and the larger the area you cover the less
force you have to use in any one spot and the longer the time it takes you
to react to activity with your reserves.

HIGHGUARD/TCS (and I suppose MT as well) are geared towards the philosophy
of "You go out there and kick ass" or "run away".  If you can't do the first
and you can't do the second then you either surrender or waste your military
in a glorious last stand.  The battle formations don't appear to be very
valid in that you really want EVERYTHING in there because every weapon and
missile COUNTS.  Even that laser turret on that transport can help shoot
down incoming missiles or help strip turrets fom enemy ships.

Get there firstest with the mostest.


 . Adrian Hurt points out that the first thing that an invader would do is try
 . to find and destroy all the defenders power plants.

Surely, if the defender has a decent number of meson silos then the attacker
won't get a lot of opportunity to hit the power plants unless the defender
is significantly out gunned/shipped/siloed.  Also, I would have made each
silo self sufficient with its own intrinsic power plant.  Buried deep
enough you wouldn't have much to detect, would you?  Of course you could
use spies but I think it would be difficult to sneak a fleet into orbit
without the planet knowing they were nasty people and should be shot at.

A friend of mine is a WWII nut and was telling me that the Allies did not
intentionally target power sources (DAM Busters was a dramatic exception and
if carried out properly to get all the Ruhr Dams would have been a major
blow to German war effort instead of the nuisance it actually was).  This was
apparently true of the German/Soviet side of the war.  Everyone was real keen
to clobber civilian and industrial targets but not the power plants.  Can
anyone shed some light on this?

Wouldn't it be easier to pre-scout a planet with spies and such and then
after wiping the system clean of defending ships you simply drop nukes on
each military base via THOR delivery systems (or missiles) and then ask
them to surrender.  You don't need to get very close to the planet to deliver
these weapons so they won't get a decent shot at your forces and you would
bring enough ammo to overwhelm their anti-misile defences.  After all, they
arre just sitting targets.  Its not as if the base can dodge the attack.
Sure they could evacuate the site and disperse to pre-arranged defence
positions but the loss of those bases and the broadcasts from space saying
that the next target will be ABC and then destroying it will tend to throw
the civilians (and government) into a panic.

 . Steve points out that a 5,000 Km diameter meson screen would require 2E19 MW
 . and a 1,200 Km diameter fusion plant.

What about an anti-matter power plant?

But then I think its impractical to have a large meson screen because your
enemy can get inside it (do your ships have individual screens too?), you
would have a terrible time firing your meson guns (all synchronised?) through
the meson screen flicker (do they flicker to allow you to shoot out?).

How would you handle 3+ enemy fleets (all enemies to each other)?


Command Control
- ---------------

Ignoring (for the moment) the formations used in space combat; what sort of
command control are you going to have once the nukes start going off (causing
communications disruptions etc) and ships are fighting for their lives.  We
have never had a REAL nuclear war here on Earth so we only have all these
theoretical problems/solutions.

In HIGHGUARD/TCS you count the number of missiles in your fleet and select a
target and blow it away in a combined attack.  If you calculate out that
you can mission kill 2, 3, 4+ plus of them with missiles then you allocate
them accordingly and its just a stastics calculation as to who will win.n
the big battle.  Providing of course that you know exactly what each side
has.

No battle plan survives first contact.


Bruce...            pihlab@hhcs.gov.au


------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4568
Date: 22 Aug 92 09:13:39 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Planetary Assaults, reprised...

Adrian Hurt:

>The first thing an invader would probably do is try to find all the
>planet's power sources using his neutrino sensors, and give them all
>some free mesons.  If the invader doesn't have both the technology
>and the big force needed to do this, he can probably forget the
>invasion anyway, because the defender's SDB force will deal with him
>before he gets near the planet.  Without power, those deep site meson
>guns are just holes in the ground.

You seem to be ignoring a few key details here:

	1) Those power plants are probably protected by meson screens.
		So it is easier to bandy this about in taverns than to actually
		do it.
	
	2) When you are close enough to "give them all some free mesons",
		they are close enough to return the favour.  And their planet
		probably has more than your fleet.
	
	3) Assuming you could destroy ALL the power generation installations
		on the planet, what would be the point of conquering it?
		Industries with no power are scrap metal, a TL15 civilization
		with no power will be TL0 in a few hours...
		And while a good-sized battleship produces more power than the
		USA consumes, history indicates that power use per capita
		increases exponentially as technology improves.  If we assume
		that a TL15 society uses ten time the power per capita that we
		do (which is probably insufficient, given the power requirements
		for grav), then an average High Pop TL15 world needs 150TW to
		keep going, which you will find very hard to replace before the
		world is reduced to savagery (late tomorrow?).

						---Steve

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4569
From: PIERRE-LOUIS CONSTANTIN <consp00@dmi.usherb.ca>
Subject: Reply to Psi
Date: 	Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:54:53 -0400

Just for the sake of arguments: :)

>From Michael Glew, Tue Aug 18

>Metempsychosis as you call it, would be covered by Projection.  Projection
>is the out-of-body excursions the mind can perform as psychic phenomenon.
>It is possible for the projectionist to at the point of death, should (s)he
>be powerful enough, to break the "silver-cord" that attaches the mind to
>the body, and go in search of a new host body.  This body need not be
>vacant, as (s)he could quite easily overcome or kill a sap (aka. non-psi).

Mm... I'm not too sure about this OOBE, "silver-cord" stuff. :)   Everything
I've learned about the mind and brain up to now tells me that a great deal
of the "mind" is a secondary effect of a brain's structure; no structure, no
mind.  (Sure this is psionics, imaginary stuff, so we can make it what we
like :)
In my opinion it means that Clairvoyance/audience/othersense is not a
projection of the mind but instead a projection of the mind's eye to the
place to "sense" or the other way around.  Metempsychosis would be the only
"total" projection of the mind there is and it would be projected into
another structure.  The mind would survive if the other structure is similar
and adequate enough.

>humanoid inhabits a creature with a smaller brain volume, then the mind
>will adjust to fit.  So if you want to inhabit a mouse, then expect to
>possibly become a sap, and definately lose 80% of your intelligence and

That sounds good. :)  But I think that a difference of up to 20% less brain
volume shouldn't matter too much, as all homo sapiens don't have quite the
same brain volume but it doesn't prevent some "smaller-brained" to be
geniuses (might be caused by the smaller transmission time inside the brain)
 ...
Also there's the "theory" that we don't use all of our brain capacity,
so in theory a smaller brain would be able to perform just as well as a
redundant, bigger one...
Except that there might be some secondary effects (likelier to develop
delusions, less memory, less concentration, less capable to hold onto many
different frames at the same time...)

>new body, when you arrive.  For full rules on this, wait until the rules
>come out, either from GDW or as Public Domain material should they be
>stupid and not publish it.

I will. :)

I don't see why GDW would be really interested in an elaborate Psi system
since Psis tend to be hush-hush, pushed out of the way stuff in most
Traveller races and too much Psis can make the game less military/hard-sf
oriented.  Also there's enough complexity and possibilities as-is. :)
Good luck to him (or her) though. ":)  The rules sound like they've been
well thought-out.

   // Pierre-Louis Constantin  -- -- -- -- consp00@dmi.usherb.ca
\\//  "When they ship styrofoam, what do they pack it in?"

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4570
Subject: Re: invading planets
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 09:13:08 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

Adrian Hurt writes:

>Problem number one for this sort of defence is that one can easily build
>streamlined, heavily armoured ships that will snigger at lasers.

Ok, lasers are a bad choice, nukes or meson weapons are the way to go.

>Problem number two is that it will probably be impossible.  Try imagining
>the same idea converted into real life, present day.  "It doesn't take much
[...]
>cannon, along with a tax bill to pay for it.  Of course, the fact that the
>U.S.A. isn't actually at war with anyone (yet) makes such a proposal
>difficult, but if you wait until you are at war, it will be too late.  The
>same goes for the high-tech planet.

How many ICBM silos does the USA have?  The tax payers did foot the bill for
building them.  The same is true of the (former) USSR, but they didn't get
quite as much of a choice in the matter.  I'll admit that putting a battery
in every building is a bit excessive but sprinkling lots around the planet
isn't too bad.  Once, war breaks out you are too late.  However, if you
predict the war and can convince the people that it is likely to happen
then installing such 'defensive' measures isn't going to cause that many
problems (look at the cold war years for an example of this, those bloody
commie bastards are going to destory our enlightened way of life therefore
we must have bigger and better weapons to destroy them first :-).


>The first thing an invader would probably do is try to find all the planet's
>power sources using his neutrino sensors, and give them all some free mesons.
[...]
>Without power, those deep site meson guns are just holes in the ground.

Trading one spinal capable ship for each power source sounds like a pretty
bum deal to me.  All the planet would have to do now would be to build
many small fusion power plants rather than a few big ones.  Once you reach
a minimum size, scale efficiencies no longer improve and the way the design
rules work, there is no constant cost to pay (which is pretty stupid).  You
could always say that large civilian plants have a better efficiency and
recreate this problem.  Putting a power plant with the deep meson site won't
be all that difficult either, power plants are relatively cheap.  Also, if
you don't start your power plant until there are capital ships in range
you won't get destroyed until after you've got one (or maybe two).  Batteries
or fuel cells are an expensive alternative too.



Steve Higginbotham writes:

>If neither side is willing to risk their big ships in combat,
>you might as well save money and never build them in the first place.

Your own comments later (which I deleted in this reply) provide the
answer to this one.  You suggest big fighters/small spinal riders when
meson weapons are present and big fighters/big capital ships when they
are not.  That is you wouldn't build big ships if meson weapons are available.

Why is this?  Becuase the big ships are useless when faced with a couple
of riders that can (& will) kill them in the first exchange of fire.
Without meson weapons, big ships can survive long enough to make
themselves useful.  In fact, a big ship is good because you don't suffer
the freebie hits from large spinal PAs and your armour will protect you
from everything else quite well.


>"I can't risk *that* ship!  It's my best one!"  --- far too many
>wargamers for my taste.

You're too right about the too many wargames bit.  But I think in
traveller there is some justification for this line of reasoning.  I did
the analysis for high guard a long time ago and basically, put two ships
with large meson spinals (factor >J ??) and they will quite effectively
fry each other.  I believe that the same result will convert over to MT
once sensor tasks have been performed (given lots of small cannon-fodder
small ships around assuming that one of them has managed to get a lock
isn't too much to ask).  I think that it will be even easier in MT since
the new design system has made agility harder to get.  The only time
mutual kill is good is when you can better afford the casualties than
your enemy.

[ I think factor J gave kill if hit and you needed a bigger factor to
  make the hit more likely.  I don't have my trav books at work, so
  I cannot regenerate the figures.  If you go to two on one the one
  is going to look very sick after the first salvo. ]


>Unlikely.  When a solar system takes days to weeks to cross, and ship
>velocities may be thousands of Km/s different, fights will frequently
>last weeks.

I stand corrected, I should have written 'ship combats'.  Once the big ships
get within range they are dead.  Getting the ships into range is another matter...


>	Nuclear Dampers, on the other hand, have a constant power
>requirement.  Maybe having one generator on each of two different ships
>as far apart in your formation as possible would allow one set of
>dampers to protect any ship between the two vessels.  Food for
>thought...

Black globes also have a constant power requirement.  A planet
sized black globe ought to be enough to delay the invasion a while.
One idea I've toyed with is building a huge ship in a very thin/long
needle configuration which will provide a huge volume surrounded by its
globe/damper/meson screens and might even provide the small ships with
some defence.

Finally Bruce writes,

>The first couple of nukes would be a big morale problem for your population
>and the site of enemy ships in the atmosphere would cause panic.

I believe that the enemy will be hard pressed to get close to the atmosphere
let alone into it.  The range of starship weapons is quite impressive.  It
should be possible to overwhelm the defences of the planet by sending lots
and lots at it, this way you ought to be able to nuke the population enough
to sap their will.

Steve, assuming you've suffered my babblings this far, could I also receive
your TCS campaign stuff?

        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------

Bundle: 381
Archive-Message-Number: 4571
From: s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Subject: Re: Reply to Psi
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 12:24:17 GMT

On Saturday, 22nd August 1992, Pierre-Louis Constantin said:

> Mm... I'm not too sure about this OOBE, "silver-cord" stuff. :)   Everything
> I've learned about the mind and brain up to now tells me that a great deal
> of the "mind" is a secondary effect of a brain's structure; no structure, no
> mind.  (Sure this is psionics, imaginary stuff, so we can make it what we
> like :)
> In my opinion it means that Clairvoyance/audience/othersense is not a
> projection of the mind but instead a projection of the mind's eye to the
> place to "sense" or the other way around.  Metempsychosis would be the only
> "total" projection of the mind there is and it would be projected into
> another structure.  The mind would survive if the other structure is similar
> and adequate enough.

There are many possibilities...

> >humanoid inhabits a creature with a smaller brain volume, then the mind
> >will adjust to fit.  So if you want to inhabit a mouse, then expect to
> >possibly become a sap, and definately lose 80% of your intelligence and
>
> That sounds good. :)  But I think that a difference of up to 20% less brain
> volume shouldn't matter too much, as all homo sapiens don't have quite the
> same brain volume but it doesn't prevent some "smaller-brained" to be
> geniuses (might be caused by the smaller transmission time inside the brain)
>  ...
> Also there's the "theory" that we don't use all of our brain capacity,
> so in theory a smaller brain would be able to perform just as well as a
> redundant, bigger one...
> Except that there might be some secondary effects (likelier to devellop
> delusions, less memory, less concentration, less capable to hold onto many
> different frames at the same time...)

A being's mind originated in the being's brain, so any change in size is
relative to the original brain size.  Also, any change is permanent, so
if a character inhabits a mouse, and then inhabits a larger creature
(if it is at all possible), then the stats will not revert to normal.
They will stay that of the mouse...

It is possible for a midget human to be very intelligent, but have a smaller
brain, so the trasition to a mouse would have slightly less of an effect.

Consider the mind as the personality, then the brain might be the machinery
that enables the mind to work.  Some minds (very few) are able to function
without the machinery, but these minds would be very powerful.  Should this
mind be confined to an alien, smaller brain, then functionality would be
sacrificed.  Active psionic beings use nearly all their brain, where as
us saps use merely half (or less).  Perhaps some animals would be mentally
psionically inoperable.  Hence a being who inhabits such a brain may lose
nearly all their powers, regardless of relative brain sizes.

Along with the loss of mental/psionic abilities, would be the possibility
of mind damage.  Lost memory, senses, etc.  But there is also a slight
chance of gaining abilities in the new host, that were not available to
the original host eg. various optical modes.  But this would take time
to get used to.  If a host creature naturally sees in IR, then the
invading projectionist would be mostly blinded until (s)he learned to
decipher the optical patterns.

Regards,

	Mike.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet:	s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

                     "I have a cunning plan..."	- Baldrick (Black Adder)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Michael Glew - School of Math Phys Comp & Elec - Macquarie University
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 382  4572 24-Aug-1992 Steve Higginbot  starship combat, TCS, Andrew << Paul Da
 382  4573 25-Aug-1992 Richard Johnson  Mind Loads << Michael Glew claims that
 382  4574 25-Aug-1992 Richard Johnson  Grav Plates << We all know that in MT w
 382  4575 26-Aug-1992 s3007048@mackay  Re: Mind Lords << On Tuesday, 25th Augu
 382  4576 26-Aug-1992 bryan borich     some replies << Cynthia
 382  4577 26-Aug-1992 Brandon Cope     please remove me from this list << Plea
 382  4578 26-Aug-1992 CS171308011@UTS  Microwave Radar as a Weapon << Greeting
 382  4579 26-Aug-1992 Mark F. Cook     Re: Grav Plates << In Archive-Message-N
 382  4580 27-Aug-1992 @hhcs.gov.au     GM needs ideas << From: NAME: Bruce Pih
 382  4581 26-Aug-1992 William Henry T  About Mind Usage << Note:
 382  4582 26-Aug-1992 Derek Wildstar   Mind Transfer and Gravitic Fields << Th
 382  4583 27-Aug-1992 jim vassilakos   Vacuum as a skin cleanser? << I know th
 382  4584 28-Aug-1992 CS171308011@UTS  What does grav "Look" like << Hmm,
 382  4585 28-Aug-1992 Derek Wildstar   Re:  What does grav "Look" like << > Hm
 382  4586 31-Aug-1992 s3007048@mackay  Re: About Mind Usage << On Wednesday, 2

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4572
Date: 24 Aug 92 19:37:38 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: starship combat, TCS, Andrew

Paul Dale:

>>If neither side is willing to risk their big ships in combat,
>>you might as well save money and never build them in the first place.

>Your own comments later (which I deleted in this reply) provide the
>answer to this one.  You suggest big fighters/small spinal riders when
>meson weapons are present and big fighters/big capital ships when they
>are not.  That is you wouldn't build big ships if meson weapons are
>available.

Hmmm...  I did not mean to imply that I was asking more than a
rhetorical question there...

>>"I can't risk *that* ship!  It's my best one!"  --- far too many
>>wargamers for my taste.

>You're too right about the too many wargames bit.  But I think in
>traveller there is some justification for this line of reasoning.  I did
>the analysis for high guard a long time ago and basically, put two ships
>with large meson spinals (factor >J ??) and they will quite effectively
>fry each other.  I believe that the same result will convert over to MT
>once sensor tasks have been performed (given lots of small cannon-fodder
>small ships around assuming that one of them has managed to get a lock
>isn't too much to ask).  I think that it will be even easier in MT since
>the new design system has made agility harder to get.  The only time
>mutual kill is good is when you can better afford the casualties than
>your enemy.

The value of a warship that is never used in combat is Zero.  There is NO
justification for building a ship that will not be used in combat.  If that
particular ship is too valuable to risk, it is also too costly to build.
{What is the profit-loss ratio of an item of value 0 and cost high?  Pretty
much the same as a value 0 item with cost low - 0}
Yes, two meson-gun-armed ships can fry each other quite effectively.  So
what does this have to do with whether they should be risked in combat?  If
you don't want to risk it, make it PERFECTLY safe : DON'T BUILD IT!


>    Nuclear Dampers, on the other hand, have a constant power
>requirement.  Maybe having one generator on each of two different ships
>as far apart in your formation as possible would allow one set of
>dampers to protect any ship between the two vessels.  Food for
>thought...

>Black globes also have a constant power requirement.  A planet
>sized black globe ought to be enough to delay the invasion a while.
>One idea I've toyed with is building a huge ship in a very thin/long
>needle configuration which will provide a huge volume surrounded by its
>globe/damper/meson screens and might even provide the small ships with
>some defence.

Blak globes are artifacts.  You don't have all that much choice about
the size, I would imagine...
As to the "very thin/long needle configuration", unless it were several
thousand Km long, it wouldn't provide any useful coverage for other ships.
Unless your ships are travelling REALLY close together.  Far closer than
is reasonable at hundreds of Km/s velocity.


>Steve, assuming you've suffered my babblings this far, could I also receive
>your TCS campaign stuff?

Sure, no problem.  Let me know if there is anything specific you want.
"Jane's" will be along REAL SOON NOW (yeah, Steve, suuure it will.)


Excuse me, I have to go prepare for a hurricane.  Later, entities...

					---Steve

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4573
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Mind Loads
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 5:45:44 PDT

Michael Glew claims that "mind is a product of brain" and that the
amount of mind is directly proportional to the size of the brain.
Assuming he's correct in this ultimate cartesian fantasy -- then if
I lived in a TL14 universe, I'd pay nearly everything I owned to get
"uploaded" into a *BIG* computer - one wiht say (brain)^3 connections.

Then I could grow beyond human bounds in thought and reason, and never
look back.

Since not only has no one done this in MT, _no species has_.  Not even
the ancients did this.  There must be some reason.  It might be because
the argument is faulty (in game terms - not real life, we don't know
that yet).  It might be because there is some quantum effect with Si
that prevents that many interconnections. It might be because _my_
logic is flawed.
- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
The thing about the number 2, like pi and e, giving it such power is that
it is part of a small, conspiratorial, cabal of universal constants that
control everything.

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4574
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Grav Plates
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 5:48:50 PDT

We all know that in MT we can control gravity--sort of.

My question is, what does a gravitic field look like?  Does it's
flux fall of 1/r^4?  Is is hyperbolic, spherical, or what?  All
these things matter, both to space doctors (who have to put up
with sickness caused by 1g on feet, .25 g on head type illnesses)
and astronomers, who want to know what the image of A-(R-alpha) is
after passing around the induced gravity of the ring.
- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
The thing about the number 2, like pi and e, giving it such power is that
it is part of a small, conspiratorial, cabal of universal constants that
control everything.

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4575
From: s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Subject: Re: Mind Lords
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 10:51:59 GMT

On Tuesday, 25th August 1992, Richard Johnson writes:

> Michael Glew claims that "mind is a product of brain" and that the
> amount of mind is directly proportional to the size of the brain.
> Assuming he's correct in this ultimate cartesian fantasy -- then if
> I lived in a TL14 universe, I'd pay nearly everything I owned to get
> "uploaded" into a *BIG* computer - one wiht say (brain)^3 connections.

That was merely a guideline to cover the fact that humans of similar
mental ability have different size brains.  It would be a fair comment
to say that a mind is at home is it's original brain, which is what I
meant here.  The fact that brain downloading is not available until
TL21 or there abouts (see Referee's Companion), means that no imperial
citizens would normally be able to do this...  Anyway, not many people
would want to be uploaded to a computer system, as not all people are
computer nuts (like us...).

> Then I could grow beyond human bounds in thought and reason, and never
> look back.

Actually, you would not change at all, your computer with your personality
would be the entity that would experience this.  Your entire memory
would just be dumped in to a giant expert system.  (a Richard Johnson
expert in this case...)

(back off man - i'm a computer science/information systems major... 8-)

> Since not only has no one done this in MT, _no species has_.  Not even
> the ancients did this.  There must be some reason.  It might be because
> the argument is faulty (in game terms - not real life, we don't know
> that yet).  It might be because there is some quantum effect with Si
> that prevents that many interconnections. It might be because _my_
> logic is flawed.

Correction, "The Ancients" uploaded personalities to their worker robots
psionics and all...  You obviously have not done the "..Secret of the Ancients"
adventure.  I won't go in to detail as some people may not have been through
that one.  Look in the Referee's Companion, in the Technology Level tables
under medicine (i think).  There are high TL brain transfers, and the such.
It seems straight forward to me that Psi is conbtained in the unused portion
of the brain/mind... 63% unused?  Hence a full brain dump will process this
data along with the rest of the memories.  But a certain level of technology
must be achieved for this to be possible...

Regards,

	Mike.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet:	s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

                     "I have a cunning plan..."	- Baldrick (Black Adder)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Michael Glew - School of Math Phys Comp & Elec - Macquarie University
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4576
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:03:39 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: some replies

Cynthia
    <Anybody have any ideas on the Ilelish, or Sylean cultures?> I might
have some write-ups on them (well, actually I do, but I'm not sure how much
they deal with the culture offhand).

Paveway,
    <I shall start throwing the odd alien into the TML for people to peruse
as well as a few more whinges on what I don't like about the MT universe.>
YES...YES..YES..I could definitely use seeing some neat nifty alien stuff, I
never have enough (and if suitably written up would like to publish it in my
fanzine on Aliens in MT, critters would be real nice too).
    <A good set of books to read to get an idea of 'good' xenobiology and
'convincing' aliens are the Uplift series by David Brin.  It is from these
books that I think the inspiration for the Solomani GenAssist programs were
taken.  The Uplift universe was rather well adapted to the GURPS system some
while back (with David Brin himself doing the alien generation rules).>
Yes, the Uplift series did have an impact on the Solomani write-up for
MTA2 (a rather large part initially if I recall).

Perkins,
    Apologies accepted (figured being busy was part of it). Glad to be 'back'.


Micheal Glew,
    Got the letter, was forwarded, but no response as of yet (probably in part
because of GEN-CON, and possibly because they'll snail mail you).

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4577
Date:    Wed, 26 Aug 1992 2:34:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: A_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (Brandon Cope)
Subject: please remove me from this list

Please remove me from this list. I have twice sent this response to
traveller-request in the past week, but I keep getting the nightly bundles.

Thank you

Brandon Cope

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4578
Date:    Wed, 26 Aug 1992 10:59:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: Microwave Radar as a Weapon

Greetings Hickers and Snickers,

Microwave RADAR as a weapon.

Ok, now, in order to get a radar system to do what Richard and Eric are
talking about (cooking the enemy) you are going to need some heavy duty
power to do so.  Comparable to intensities found in your good old
microwave oven.

Ok, now, I never took a Jackson course, but I have talked to those who
have.  Specifically one of my old profs who kinda liked to play around
with putting coiled copper wire into the oven.  What happened, was that
the wire would be driven by the microwaves, and induce a rather strong
current along the wire.  The wire would overheat and burn.  The flame
produced would dance around inside the oven, and had a strong tendancy
to be pulled up to the top of the machine.

What was happening, was the microwaves were setting up a VERY strong
EM field.  The flame (low temp plasma) was being affected by that field.
The field drew the plasma up to the microwave emmitter.  Consequently,
the emmitter was being blasted with flame.

Ok, now let's imagine this system deployed as a weapon.  The EM field
is going to act as a waveguide.  It will draw any plasma up to the
source of the field.

So, assuming, that your opponants don't have reflec, or combat armor
or some sort of insulation around them, or don't have a few radar
seeking missiles hanging around, but they DO have a plasma gun, all
they would have to do is point it vaguely at the target, and the
plasma bolt will be drawn up to the emmitter.  FRAZK!

Oh, BTW, Eric, a friend of my father's was one of the unfortunates who
was in the US embassy in Moscow when the Soviets were bombarding the
place with microwaves.  Two years ago, he suddenly developed cancer and
died within a few weeks.  I believe there was some speculation as to the
source of the cancer being related.  I'll look into it.

Scott 2G Kellogg	CS171308011@utsa86.utsa.edu
"Oh no!  He's BACK!"
"What did we do to deserve this?"

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4579
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Grav Plates
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 16:19:09 PDT

In Archive-Message-Number: 4574 Richard Johnson writes:

> My question is, what does a gravitic field look like?

It looks a lot like an Oregon grass-seed field in October, except
it's a deeper shade of purple and the ribbing around the edge is much
more pronounced (which explains why it's so bumpy for TL9 spacecraft
leaving and re-entering one). :^)

                DE 411: Drivers Ed. advanced studies - Emphasis
                        on parallel parking a starship.

                                - Exerpt from the University of Rylanor
                                  curriculum guide.
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4580
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 08:27:53 +1000
From: @hhcs.gov.au
Subject: GM needs ideas

From:	NAME: Bruce Pihlamae
	FUNC: Information Services
	TEL: (06) 289-7056                    <PIHLAMAE BRUCE AT A1 AT CBR>
To:	uucp%"traveller@engrg.uwo.ca"@cnb07v@mrgate
CC:	NAME: Alistair Langsford <LANGSFORD ALISTAIR AT A1 AT CBR>

    > Bruce, please pass this on to the TML...

    OK. Here it is...

    I would suggest that you title any replies as "GM HELP" and I promise
    not to read them until after my character(s) are dead.  Alternatively,
    you could address replies directly to  LANGSL@hhcs.gov.au  so I don't
    get tempted to read them.  However, I think that TML would be
    interested in any scenario ideas.

    > Hi.  I'm currently stuck for ideas for traveller scenarios and
    > campaigns.  I seem to be in a bit of a rut - and while I am doing
    > something about that, I thought I'd ask all you TMLers out there for
    > some inspiration in the meantime.  There are three existing and
    > totally separate charatcer groups (although some players are involved
    > in more than one group) to be catered for.
    >
    > 1. This group have not started play yet, and have just finished
    > character generation and consists of a Scout, A Navy bod, a Rogue,
    > and a Scientist.  All have mustered out, and the group have a Scout
    > ship and a Lab Ship.  All are 2 terms.

    I'm in this one and I've suggested an archeological/mining survey or
    testing team attached to some University or such as a starting point so
    any ideas for scenarios for this path would be appreciated.  But other
    paths are welcome.

    >
    > 2. This group are in play (and mustered out after 3 terms, 4 in the
    > case of the Merchant): a Scout, A Navy person who did a term as a
    > Scientist, A Bureaucrat, and a Merchant.
    >
    > They are currently outside the imperium as a result of a misjump
    > while the passenger ship they were on was being hijacked by Pirates.
    > They are now on a Balkanised world which has TL9-10 available to the
    > Consortium of Nation States & Corporate States which built the
    > Starport and control most space & interstellar travel, but TL 6-8 to
    > most everyone else, Corporation or Nation.
    >
    > They are currently employed by a Patron for espionage type work, sort
    > of like SOE in WWII and Air America.
    >
    > Any ideas for this environment?  What about other environments they
    > could move to, and how?

    I'm also in this one and I've only been shot twice, lost my lunch half
    a dozen times, killed a few "obviously bad" people and a couple of
    security 'bots and everybody's out to kill me.  Hey, it's tough being a
    Bureaucrat.

    >
    > 3.  A third group would like to try an SF campaign, most probably
    > Traveller.  So you can suggest what you like for this one.
    >
    > Thanking you in advance.


    You're welcome.

    Bruce...          pihlab@hhcs.gov.au


    PS. Alistair Langsford (LANGSL@hhcs.gov.au) has been trying for a while
        now to join TML but no replies at all.

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4581
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:56:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: About Mind Usage

Note:

	Does ANYONE have any DIRECT evidence of that 'humans only use 10% of
their brain' statistic?

	As far as I know, that's an urban legend. Anyone you are likely to ask
has 'heard' of this statistic from someone else.

	Now, what I think the problem is, is the difference between two statements-

Statement 1-
	You only use 10% of your brain's potential.
Statement 2-
	10% of your brain is active on the average.

	Statement 1 is, I believe, a misunderstood version of statement 2. Only
part of your brain is active at any one time- signals tend to sweep from
one area to another, as information is processed. HOWEVER, this does NOT
mean that we aren't utilizing part of our brain.
	It has also been noted that more 'intelligent' people often have less
brain activity when solving a problem that less intelligent people. The
theory is that high brain activity indicates a lot of thought.
Intelligent people's thoughts are organized in ways that solve problems
better, so it takes less thinking.

The upshot is, there is no good way to expand a human mind. Also, you
CAN'T treat the mind as a computer bank. Computers and brains operate in
very different ways. (Yes, there ARE similarities, but people seem to be
taking huge liberties with information theory!)

- -Me
[Pooh Bear incarnate.]
<B1 c+ f+ w g+ k+ s+ r- e+ p>

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4582
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:47:24 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Mind Transfer and Gravitic Fields


The Recent "Mind Loads" Thread
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From a purely role-playing and story-telling angle, the limitation that a Psi
loose intelligence, skills, knowledge, or personality in a mind-transfer is so
limiting to the ability that it is extremely unlikely to be used (at least for
this purpose).  This may have been the intent of the original author of the
power.  Personally, I would have this power either (A) work only between
members of the same species, with the newly transferred personality have all of
the intelligence, skills, and personality (perhaps with fragments or tints of
the previous personality), or (B) make it magic, and allow the Psi to transfer
to any mind of any creature, retaining full personality, intelligence, and
mental abilities, or (C) not allow it at all.

In my opinion, the power should be chosen for its story-telling and
question-raising ability, and the rationale worked out from that.  Suspension of
disbelief can be worked on pretty flimsy ground, of the story is interesting.
On the other hand, if the story is dull, even the most well-reasoned mechanics
are not going to help.  So do what you are comfortable with!

You know that you are onto something when the players (all on their own) start
speculating about how the power *MIGHT* work, and are debating the various
philosphical points raised by such a psionic ability.


What Does a Gravitic Field Look Like?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In my Traveller "universe" a Paragravitic Field (or "Grav Field") is the force
field created by a Paragravitic Field Generator ("Grav Generator" for short).
The field is emitted by plate-like emitters ("Grav Plates") connected to the
Grav Generator by some type of waveguide or conduit.

Objects (or people, or whatever) within the field experience forces *EXACTLY*
as if the gravitic forces were being created by a point mass of a specific
size, at a specific location relative to the emitter plates.  This mass is not
really present, it is a "Virtual Mass".  The size, shape, and location of the
plates, as well as the power and control inputs to the generator determine the
aparrent size and position of the "Virtual Mass", as well as the size and shape
of the gravitic field.

With a large enough generator, and enough conduit and emitter plates, the field
can be nearly any imaginable shape and size.  Within the field, everyone and
everything experiences the gravitation of the virtual mass (for example, the
virtual mass might be that of an Earth-sized planet, with an aparrent location
of several thousand miles below the grav plates; the net result being a field
with earth-like gravity.  In this case, the field would probably be flat
pancake, about three meters thick above each grav plate.

Outside of the field, the effects of the virtual mass are not felt at all.  At
the very edge of the field, the effect is undefined, and the usual result is
a region of gravitic turbulence (not usually dangerous, but awfully
disconcerting to pass through).

Grav generators are usually kept running whenever possible.  It takes time for
the field to build up strength.  As energy is input to the grav generator, it
uses that energy to build the strength of the field, thereby increasing the
potential energy of everything inside the field.  When the generator is switched
off, the field strength gradually decreases, as the potential energy is
dissipated by the grav generator.  During normal operation of the grav
generator, it requires some power to maintain the field, and additional power as
the energy of objects inside the field changes.

Special cases (such as when two fields overlap) are usually left to the
referee.  Fields normally overlap and simply add effects; although in special
cases (such as when an experienced grav technician made a skill roll) fields
have been created to cancel out or interfere with other ones.  Some sensors
(the densitometer, to be specific) have the ability to detect grav fields.
Other, more specialized diagnostic equipment can be used by a grav technician
to map out a grav field and determine its characteristics.

To fit this explanation in with the philosophy above: My intent was to have a
gravitic device that was conceptually simple (it creates a virtual mass at a
certain aparrent distance) so that anyone could get a workable handle on the
"how it works", and I wanted something that would not grossly violate
conservation of energy (since there are typically a number of scientists or
engineers in any Traveller crowd).  The numbers presented for grav equipment in
the various Traveller and MegaTraveller books are then treated as
approximations.

Wildstar

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4583
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:52:21 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Vacuum as a skin cleanser?


I know this has been talked about before, and I remember most
people laughing at Outland & Total Recall, but just for the sake
of refreshing my memory, somebody tell me a little bit about
vacuum's effect on the human body. Say I get in an evil mood and
decide to make Skywalker live up to his name, so I shove him out
the Falcon's airlock while we're busy flying-casual in a not so
a low orbit and then yank him back in after say...  half an hour.
Would anybody other than the Wookie still recognize him?

           _   /|
           \`o_O'          Jim Vassilakos
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
           Aachk!


------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4584
Date:    Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:25:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: What does grav "Look" like

Hmm,

Richard asks:  What does a grav field "Look" like?

Well, I assume you are using a densiometer to "look" at it.  Or some
other means to measure gravitic potential.  (How else would you "see"
it?)

Well, the model I have looked at grav plates as though they are some kind
of resonant effect within the hull of the ship.  Thus, you have grav plates
on the 'floor' and 'ceiling' of your ship, which makes the entire hull
into some sort of resonant cavity where the plates interact with each other
in creating your grav field.  I would GUESS that *however* anti-grav works,
this would be the most efficient way to place the plates.  (Sort of a
gravitic laser cavity without a beam?)  You see this way you don't have to
waste energy creating a field outside and 'above' the hull, as the grav
effect is confined to inside it.

What does it "LOOK" like?
Well, inside the ship, Traveller literature seems to indicate that there is
no difference between the effect of grav plates and standing on a planet's
surface.  So, to my mind someone with a densiometer would detect things on
the ship normally.
	Now, we are told that it is difficult or impossible to
look through a ship from the outside with a densiometer while the ship's
plates are on.  Well, using my model above, the potential well of the plates
would make the ship something like a very deep potential well, but with no
grav field trailing off into space as a normal field would do.  Consequently,
It would look kinda like a fish tank.  The fish can see in the water normally,
we can see around the tank normally, but when one tries to look into the tank
from the outside, or from inside the tank to the outside, there are distortion
effects which are rather considerable.
	If you had sufficient computing power turned on the problem, or data
on what the ship's grav field "looked" like normally, one would be able to
scan through the field distortion.

How's that sound?

2G Scott
"Hey!  Rocky!  That' things fulla Upsidaisium!*"  -- Bullwinkle J. Moose
*Upsidaisium:  The anti-gravity metal.  See Cavorite*
*Cavorite:  See Upsidaisim				:-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4585
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 19:08:21 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Re:  What does grav "Look" like

> Hmm,
	
> Richard asks:  What does a grav field "Look" like?
>
> Well, I assume you are using a densiometer to "look" at it.  Or some
> other means to measure gravitic potential.  (How else would you "see"
> it?)
>
> Well, the model I have looked at grav plates as though they are some kind
> of resonant effect within the hull of the ship.  Thus, you have grav plates
> on the 'floor' and 'ceiling' of your ship, which makes the entire hull
> into some sort of resonant cavity where the plates interact with each other
> in creating your grav field.  I would GUESS that *however* anti-grav works,
> this would be the most efficient way to place the plates.  (Sort of a
> gravitic laser cavity without a beam?)  You see this way you don't have to
> waste energy creating a field outside and 'above' the hull, as the grav
> effect is confined to inside it.

That abou matches what I wrote, and I like it.  Presumably grav drives
for air/rafts and the like use an unconfined grav field, and are
therefore less efficient and have a "fringe" effect due to the drive.

I will further more stick my neck out and conjecture that "thruster
plates" for reactionless drives in spacecraft use a tuned cavity to
create a coherent "beam".  The propulsion is more efficient, and doesn't
need an external grav field to "push against"; it "pushes" against
itself.
>
> What does it "LOOK" like?
> Well, inside the ship, Traveller literature seems to indicate that there is
> no difference between the effect of grav plates and standing on a planet's
> surface.  So, to my mind someone with a densiometer would detect things on
> the ship normally.

Except that we have been told that an unshielded densitometer doesn't
work in a grav field (first introduced in _Grand_Survey_, I believe).
If an unshielded densitometer is inside a grav field, or is scanning at
or through an area containing a grav field, the only reading you get is
"artificial grav field".

Shielded densitometers are available; they are considerably larger, more
expensive, and more power-hungry than the unshielded versions (the
shielded versions are the ones listed in the _Referee's_Handbook_).
These work from within a grav field, but still cannot "see" into or
through one.

Presumably the MegaTraveller densitometers use sensitive artificial grav
fields to do their scanning; an external grav field would completely
swamp the signal, and you get no information.
>
> Now, we are told that it is difficult or impossible to
> look through a ship from the outside with a densiometer while the ship's
> plates are on.  Well, using my model above, the potential well of the plates
> would make the ship something like a very deep potential well, but with no
> grav field trailing off into space as a normal field would do.  Consequently,
> It would look kinda like a fish tank.  The fish can see in the water normally,
> we can see around the tank normally, but when one tries to look into the tank
> from the outside, or from inside the tank to the outside, there are distortion
> effects which are rather considerable.

How about this: Grav fields are opaque to densitometers, with one
exception - the grav field surrounding a grav-sheilded densitometer is
transparent to that densitometer.

Coherent grav fields would have sharp edges and would be very well
defined.  Presumably, a good operator could tell the difference between
different types of coherent grav fields ("That one's a thruster plate;
that one's the deck gravity, and there's a repulsor bay in operation").

Non-coherent grav fields (like those produced by many small gravitic
devices, air/rafts, and other goodies) would be more nebulous and
fuzzy-looking.  Their edges would probably be transparent to some
degree, with the insides being opaque.
>
> If you had sufficient computing power turned on the problem, or data
> on what the ship's grav field "looked" like normally, one would be able to
> scan through the field distortion.

That might be possible; each different kind of grav generator might have
a different "signature" - if you could learn what it was, and subtract
it out, you might be able to scan into or through grav fields to a
limited degree.  If it were easy, cheap, or reliable, someone would have
done it a long time ago.  This is therefore a place where the referee
and the player characters can have some fun; lots of money, research,
time, and good skill rolls, and they might have something that they can
use against that pesky corsair captain.  Or even better yet, have an NPC
scientist who has "almost" solved the problem, and get the player
characters mixed up in the affair (after all, who *WOULDN'T* want to be
able to seen through grav fields with a densitometer).
>
> How's that sound?

All in all, I like it!
>
> 2G Scott
> "Hey!  Rocky!  That' things fulla Upsidaisium!*"  -- Bullwinkle J. Moose
> *Upsidaisium:  The anti-gravity metal.  See Cavorite*
> *Cavorite:  See Upsidaisim				:-)

Which one's that from?  I have almost all of them!              }:-)
                                                    Antlers ---/

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 382
Archive-Message-Number: 4586
From: s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Subject: Re: About Mind Usage
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:31:45 GMT


On Wednesday, 26th August 1992, William Henry Timmins wrote:

> Note:
>
> 	Does ANYONE have any DIRECT evidence of that 'humans only use 10% of
> their brain' statistic?
>
> 	As far as I know, that's an urban legend. Anyone you are likely to ask
> has 'heard' of this statistic from someone else.

I think the actual quote is 35%, but I get your general idea.  I "heard" it
from Albert Einstein (in a quote by him, but I forget the source).  It is not
a fact, merely a theory, but I'd say that it is based on some observations
such as neural activity, etc.

>	Now, what I think the problem is, is the difference between two
> statements-
>
> Statement 1-
> 	You only use 10% of your brain's potential.
> Statement 2-
> 	10% of your brain is active on the average.

Considering that the brain is a dynamic thinking tool, then if only 10% of
it is used on average, then there is the potential that all of it can be used,
though current knowledge does not know a method of using more of the brain
that is used by natural thinking.

> 	Statement 1 is, I believe, a misunderstood version of statement 2. Only
> part of your brain is active at any one time- signals tend to sweep from
> one area to another, as information is processed. HOWEVER, this does NOT
> mean that we aren't utilizing part of our brain.
>
> 	It has also been noted that more 'intelligent' people often have less
> brain activity when solving a problem that less intelligent people. The
> theory is that high brain activity indicates a lot of thought.
> Intelligent people's thoughts are organized in ways that solve problems
> better, so it takes less thinking.

Personally, I don't know how they could have approximated what 100%
brain usage would be.  Perhaps their 35% is actual 100%, and persons
displaying more than that have highly active neural patterns.

> The upshot is, there is no good way to expand a human mind. Also, you
> CAN'T treat the mind as a computer bank. Computers and brains operate in
> very different ways. (Yes, there ARE similarities, but people seem to be
> taking huge liberties with information theory!)

Perhaps interfaces would be a good start.  Dedicated neural storage expansions
that have a human though interface, so that the human host recognises it as
another part of the brain.  One downside of this, is that overuse would
end up in the brain "becoming lazy" and spreading it's workload out uniformly,
so that if the interface is removed, there could be withdrawal symptoms or
worse.  If the brain decides that the best place to put it's life support
processes/workload/whatever is the expansion memory, then look out when it
is removed.

another idea would be a maths processor interface, this would react to
a function like input from the mind directly, and would return the correct
solution in milliseconds.  The only problem is that optimum use can only
be had by a person familiar with matematics to start with.  But education
of the future will probably focus on maths anyway...  who knows?

Regards,

	Mike.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet:	s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

                     "I have a cunning plan..."	- Baldrick (Black Adder)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Michael Glew - School of Math Phys Comp & Elec - Macquarie University
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 383  4587 31-Aug-1992 Adrian Hurt      Re: Planet Defence << pihlab@hhcs.gov.a
 383  4588 08-Aug-1992 "Carl Fago"      TML Members - Technology Weenies? << [S
 383  4589 31-Aug-1992 James T Perkins  TML Admin Back in Business << It appear
 383  4590 01-Sep-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  Re: About Mind Usage << An SF Short sto
 383  4591 31-Aug-1992 jlkim@sdcc3.ucs  Megatraveller errata <<         Does so
 383  4592 01-Sep-1992 tom@CSVAX1.UCC.  Re: planetary Defence << Ideally, plane
 383  4593 02-Sep-1992 Andrew Fong      evolution in traveller << Hi all !
 383  4594 02-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  Progress Report: 4.5th War:  For What I
 383  4595 02-Sep-1992 Joe Block        Weather Prediction << Hello all.
 383  4596 02-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  Mobile Planetary Defences:  Meson Subs
 383  4597 03-Sep-1992 Adrian Hurt      Various stuff << As I get the mail in b

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4587
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Planet Defence
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 9:52:28 BST

pihlab@hhcs.gov.au writes:
>  . Adrian Hurt points out that the first thing that an invader would do is try
>  . to find and destroy all the defenders power plants.
>
> Surely, if the defender has a decent number of meson silos then the attacker
> won't get a lot of opportunity to hit the power plants unless the defender
> is significantly out gunned/shipped/siloed.  Also, I would have made each
> silo self sufficient with its own intrinsic power plant.  Buried deep
> enough you wouldn't have much to detect, would you?

Power plants produce neutrinos.  Neutrinos go through just about anything,
except neutrino sensors.  (How _they_ work is a subject for another
discussion. :-)  So a ship with a decent neutrino sensor will find those
power plants without needing spies.

Note that one of the factors which determines how hard it is to hit a target
is the target's agility.  What is the agility of the attacking ship?  What
is the agility of the ground-based power plant?  Which one is going to get
hit first?

> Wouldn't it be easier to pre-scout a planet with spies and such and then
> after wiping the system clean of defending ships you simply drop nukes on
> each military base via THOR delivery systems (or missiles) and then ask
> them to surrender.

Surely the fleet which is doing the dropping has the same problem as the
fleet looking for power plants, i.e. the planet is firing back?  The main
problem with dropping nukes is that the planet probably also has a good
supply of nuclear dampers.

>  . Steve points out that a 5,000 Km diameter meson screen would require 2E19 MW
>  . and a 1,200 Km diameter fusion plant.
>
> What about an anti-matter power plant?

Note that the attacking ships also have meson screens.  And that power plant
is going to show up on the attacker's sensors rather nicely.  Also note that
meson screens are not impenetrable.  Finally, guess what happens to anything
in the vicinity of that power plant if it is the anti-matter type and it
takes a direct hit from anything.

Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
> 	2) When you are close enough to "give them all some free mesons",
> 		they are close enough to return the favour.  And their planet
> 		probably has more than your fleet.

But the fleet can evade, i.e. it has Agility, which counts against the planet's
attacks.  The planet, on the other hand, is a sitting target.

> 	3) Assuming you could destroy ALL the power generation installations
> 		on the planet, what would be the point of conquering it?

Looting, slavery, grabbing the land.  Or bring a few portable power supplies,
alias battleships, and let them keep the place running until the planet's own
power supplies are repaired or replaced.  (That should be a nice deterrent to
the planet's guns, by the way - "Sorry, you've just destroyed the ships which
would have saved your society. :-)

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4588
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 23:30:00 -0400
From: "Carl Fago" <CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: TML Members - Technology Weenies?

[Subject line provided by traveller-request, to whom this message was
addressed.  Carl - watch the address supplied when you do an auto-reply!]

PAVEWAY makes some interesting comments about the depths to which TML-types
tend to go with technology explanation in traveller.

Now, I'm not saying anything about the pros & cons of such discussions but
PAVEWAY's attitude may show us something about the "other" traveller players
that GDW has to please in their quest to sell us a game.  It may provide the
insight as to why such things were ignored previously by GDW and may well
be ignored in the future.

Just idle thoughts and bantering.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu    | Be wary of strong drink.     |
             DELPHI - WULFGAR  GEnie - C.FAGO1| It can make you shoot at tax |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA                | collectors -- and miss!      |


------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4589
Subject: TML Admin Back in Business
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 11:20:44 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.sp-eug.com>


It appears I have solved some of the critical problems plaguing this
list, with much help from Mark Cook and much support, encouragement, and
question-answering from metlay, Bryan Borich, and many others.

What I've done:

    Mark helped me restart the biweekly and bundle subscribers.

    Mark fixed the "End of Biweekly" message that was being erroneously
    appended to the NIGHTLY digest.

    Mark helped edit a few new addresses in.

    I just updated the distribution lists for the first time since late
    July, removing lots of people who wanted off the TML, and adding
    several newcomers (you know who you are, introduce yourselves, why
    don't you?!).

    I beat several pages of mail requests into submission.

What I haven't done yet:

    Gotten Striker his disks (still).

    Gotten quick answers back to those who mailed me specific questions
    like "I'm missing articles XXX through YYY, can you remail them to
    me?" or "Help me find file XXX on sunbane". Hang tight, I'll get
    back to you.

Thanks all of you who helped or lent encouragement. BTW, my wife Glennis
is now the proud owner of an Opal Green Honda Civic LX 4-door Automatic,
and the attendant painful monthly obligation. So -- she's planning to
look for work this year rather than playing student.

I think TML sanity is (almost) at hand.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4590
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 92 11:42:08 +1000
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Re: About Mind Usage

An SF Short story I read long long ago (and can't find now) had an
interesting twist about the mind.

This human meets a space parasite which can mind meld with him and for
certain assistance provided by the parasite agrees to allow the parasite
to do a FULL mind merge (which involves entering the humans body and
some other stuff I've forgotten).  Anyway, the FULL mind merge only comes
at the end of the story and the parasite lied about it not damagiung
the client.

The story ends with the parasite discovering that the human already has
a parasite (one of its race) inside him and that the symbiosis has been
going on since early cavemen walked around.  The symbiosis is that the
parasite makes up 80-90% of what we humans call brains.

Hey, it was neat at the time.


Bruce...               pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4591
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:26:18 -0800
From: jlkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu
Subject: Megatraveller errata


        Does someone out there have a copy of the 1st ed. MT errata that
they could email me or submit to the list?

Thanks,
Justin
- ----
- ------------->Justin Kim
- -------------------->jlkim@ucsd.edu
- -------------------------->Graduate School of International Relations/
- -------------------------------->Pacific Studies. UC-San Diego
"This is a sword," Sun Wolf said.  "You hold it from this end."
Barbra Hambly, _The Ladies of Madrigyn_


------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4592
Date: 	Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:58:46 -0400
From: tom@CSVAX1.UCC.IE
Subject: Re: planetary Defence

Ideally, planetary defence meson guns will be linked into the planetary power
grid which will include deep power plants, placed away from the meson gun
sites. The power plants on the planets surface will be in or near cities and
so be protected by the cities screens. The deep meson guns and deep power plants
will be the biggest secrets on(in) the planet and will have the best screens
possible.

This means that attackers will have to destroy the power plants. While there is
any power available the deep meson guns can keep firing (their own neutrino
detectors provide targetting information). The attackers cannot spot the meson
guns unless the defenders kindly place fusion power plants with them to be
spotted. Assuming the attackers have massive superiority they can destroy all
the power plants, but this will probably destroy most of the industries,
infrastructure and population that make the planet valuable.

A fleet that attacks a well-defended world is not going to to do so for loot or
slaves -  and any possible loot or slaves could not conceivably pay for the
losses incurred by a fleet big enough to succeed. For that sort of thing there
are plenty of lightly defended or undefended worlds around.

Could someone please tell me what are the range modifiers for Meson guns and
particle accelerators in MT. My rulebooks quote both -1 and -2 for planetary
range for Meson guns and say nothing about particle accelerators.

Someone once posted limitations on the resolution of densitometers in MT.
Does any information exist on the resolution of neutrino sensors? What
about passive and active EMS? It would be nice to impose limitations on
passive sensors to give some reason for the existence of active ones.

                                                 Tom O'Neill

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4593
From: andrewf@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Andrew Fong)
Subject: evolution in traveller
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 11:53:30 EST


Hi all !

Since everyone is interested in bio systems etc, I'd like to ask a question
thats been bugging me and I haven't yet had a chance to look up anything.

Essentially, with Traveller we assume there haven't been any evolutionary
changes in humans. Given current genetic engineering developments, would
there be human variants in the Traveller universe ?  So what is the state
of genetic engineering in the Traveller universe ? Was there some catastrophic
event that banned such development or was it placed in the too hard basket
given the ethical and moral dilemmas ?

So if Darwinian evolution is less applicable to humans, is it up to ourselves
to evolve as we need ? What is current evolutionary theory and how do humans
develop any further ? Any ideas ?

A minor note, travelling to all these worlds is fun but what about the disease
and germ problems involved ?

Note that I played and used Traveller rules, not Mega Traveller.


						Andrew Fong


------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4594
Date:    Wed, 2 Sep 1992 9:41:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: Progress Report: 4.5th War:  For What It's Worth

Hey Folx,

After a disk crash induced panic over the weekend, I have to report that
the 4.5th Frontier War is indeed *SAFE* (as long as you are not one of
the participants  :-)  YAHOOO!

Also, the editing of the current chapter is nearly complete.
The 4.5th Columnists, is JUST about ready.  My life is kinda busy moving
though.  And the ending is still kinda rough.

An interesting development:
Just as each chapter has had a subtitle (In keeping with Rocky and Bullwinkle),
The 4.5th Frontier War now has a subtitle to it:  "For What It's Worth".

Don't get it?  Go listen to Buffalo Springfield.
You probably still won't get it though... :-)

2G Scott
There's something happening here
and what it is aien't exactly clear.
There's a man with a gun over there
a tellin' me I've got to beware...

Think it's time we STOP,
Children,
What's that sound?
Everybody look what's goin' down...

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4595
From: jpb@newssun.med.miami.edu (Joe Block)
Subject: Weather Prediction
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 11:44:24 EDT


Hello all.

Having just experienced Hurricane Andrew, I was wondering if anyone had come
up with rules for weather prediction.  Also, how would one determine damage
to grounded ships if a big storm hit while they were dirtside?

jpb

P.S. - If anyone is going to WorldCon, I'll be there.  If you're interested
in meeting for dinner or something, I'll be posting some sort of notice with
a location and a time once I get there.  Things have been a little too hectic
lately for me to plan things more thoroughly.

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4596
Date:    Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:24:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: Mobile Planetary Defences:  Meson Subs

On the topic of deep meson sites:

Check out the vehicle archives.  In there somewhere is the Herbert Dean
class Meson Submarine.  Essentually, a sub with a spinal meson gun.
She sits on the bottom connected to a geothermal power station.   There
were supposed to be lots of these stations available, and the subs
maneuvered from station to station changing their position rather like
the old idea of having the MX missile on railway cars.

The geothermal plant will leak no neutrinos for the attackers to find.
And her operational depth is below 1 kilometer, out of range of
densiometers, and even if somebody brings a TL 16 densiometer to bear
on you with a penetration depth of 10 km, the sub is the same overall
density as the water it displaces, and in addition, is sitting on the
bottom.  VERY hard to find.

She had quite a few meson communicators to provide links to remote
sensors.

A rather difficult proposition as a target.  Ok, she can't maneuver
very fast, but you gotta *FIND* her first...

2G Scott
WHAT?!  *MORE* Women with marital problems!?
Why *ME?*
Shriek!  Shriek!  Scream!  Scream!

------------------------------

Bundle: 383
Archive-Message-Number: 4597
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Various stuff
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 10:03:14 BST

As I get the mail in bundles, and as the current bundle (vol. 44, issue 7)
had several things I felt like answering, I've decided to answer them all
in one message and save postal costs.

> Archive-Message-Number: 4593
> From: andrewf@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Andrew Fong)
>
> Essentially, with Traveller we assume there haven't been any evolutionary
> changes in humans. Given current genetic engineering developments, would
> there be human variants in the Traveller universe ?

Evolution by genetic engineering: probably possible.  Whether it would be
desirable to create some form of super-race, and what the rest of humanity
would do to it, is another question.  See oblique references in Star Trek II
(Eugenics Wars), some of Larry Niven's and Jerry Pournelle's work (Saurian
supermen), and what everyone thought of the Aryan master race.

Evolution by natural means: I don't think this would happen, especially in
the time scale involved here.  Doesn't evolution tend to take rather a long
time, more than just a couple of thousand years, in advanced life forms?
Besides, natural selection is being overridden by society's tendency to care
for its weaker members - there is no natural selection, for example, to help
humans evolve into a species which does not get AIDS.

> From: jpb@newssun.med.miami.edu (Joe Block)
> Subject: Weather Prediction
>
> Having just experienced Hurricane Andrew, I was wondering if anyone had come
> up with rules for weather prediction.  Also, how would one determine damage
> to grounded ships if a big storm hit while they were dirtside?

I'd be inclined to say that storms of that magnitude are acts of GM, and as
such don't need rules.  If you want a storm that cripples the PC's ship,
just have one.  You can, of course, have a world on which such storms are
common, and let the weather expert PC figure out how such a world can
exist while the social science PC can tell everyone why anyone settled on
it in the first place.

> From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
> Subject: Mobile Planetary Defences:  Meson Subs
>
> On the topic of deep meson sites:
>
> Check out the vehicle archives.  In there somewhere is the Herbert Dean
> class Meson Submarine.  Essentually, a sub with a spinal meson gun.

And if you build something similar with its own internal power plant and
manoeuvre drives, you get the same capability plus the ability to act as
an SDB, mainly because what you have is an SDB.

> She sits on the bottom connected to a geothermal power station.   There
> were supposed to be lots of these stations available, and the subs
> maneuvered from station to station changing their position rather like
> the old idea of having the MX missile on railway cars.

An SDB could switch off its drives and do the same thing.

> The geothermal plant will leak no neutrinos for the attackers to find.
> And her operational depth is below 1 kilometer, out of range of
> densiometers, and even if somebody brings a TL 16 densiometer to bear
> on you with a penetration depth of 10 km, the sub is the same overall
> density as the water it displaces, and in addition, is sitting on the
> bottom.  VERY hard to find.

So the attacking ships go underwater as well and play "Hunt for Red
October".

As a matter of interest, could one of the physics experts tell us how big
a geothermal plant would have to be in order to provide enough power to
drive a meson gun?

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 384  4599 04-Sep-1992 LTG3878@ZEUS.TA  Genetic Engineering << On the subject o
 384  4600 04-Sep-1992 "THOMS, KEITH"   RE: Traveller Next Era description <<
 384  4601 04-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  GDW Virus Vultures << Pardon me, folx,
 384  4602 04-Sep-1992 Nicholas Sylvai  I Like the Ideas for TNE! (NOT!) << Rea
 384  4603 04-Sep-1992 MacGyver         Re: GDW Virus Vultures << > Contrast th
 384  4604 05-Sep-1992 Tim Vannaman     Traveller Questions << >
 384  4605 05-Sep-1992 SULAIMAN@ecs.um  Traveller new Era.... << From the sound
 384  4598 03-Sep-1992 bryan borich     TNE writer's conference << Item forward

------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4599
Date:    Fri, 4 Sep 1992 9:09:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Genetic Engineering

On the subject of Genetic Engineering in Traveller:

o Genetic Engineering in Classic Trav - in order to perform Genetic Engineering
  (not just directed breeding) on a species, it is necessary to understand the
  science of genetics.  The Vilani, for example, had several faulty theries of
  Biolgy prior to their contact with Terrans, because they were genetically very
  different than the other animals of Vland.  The same goes for the Vargr and
  the Zhodani.  The K'Kree, the Hivers, the Aslan, and the Solomani are the only
  'Major' races who evolved on their planet of origin, and therefore, the only
  'Major' races likely to be know a lot about genetics.

  To summarize:
  The Solomani could know quite a bit about genetics, and make use of it.
  The Aslan might find genetic alteration of the species without honour and
     avoid such studies.
  The K'Kree view themsevles as the pinnacle of creation, and would see no
     need for genetic engineering.
  The Hiver are more interested in the engineering of societies than
     individuals, but I could see them dabbling in genetic engineering.
  The Zhodani are more interested in the development of the mind than the body.
  The Vargr are a genetically engineered race, and might view further genetic
     engineering with some suspiscion, and question its usefulness for gaining
     plunder.
  The Vilani might disdain the science of genetics as a 'Terran conconction',
     and not vigorously pursue the study of it.

  It is important to note that the single instance I can recall from Classic
  Trav mentioning Genetic Engineering in the current era, was a race of sophont
  Dolphins, genetically altered by the Solomain from Terran Dolphins.

o Genetic Engineering in MegaTraveller.  All comments made above still hold.
  However, in the Solomani & Aslan module by DGP, several references are made
  to the fact that the Solomani are well known for their abilities as genetic
  engineers.  Also, in the MegaTraveller Journal (I forget the issue number),
  a race of humans genetically engineered in the year 800 is mentioned.

  A new summary:
  The Solomani are known as genetic engineers.  However, their racial views
     have caused them to perform less such work than in the past. because of
     the confusion over 'What is a Solomani?'
  Same comment for the Aslan as before.
  Same comment for the K'Kree as before.
  Same comment for the Hivers as before.
  Same comment for the Zhodani as before.
  Same comment for the Vargr as before.
  The Vilani discourage innovation and change, preferring the traditional ways
     of doing things.  Genetic engineering would be contrary to their lifestyle.

o In conclusion, it can be argued that the Solomani are the only Major race with
  a marked tendency to genetically engineer their species.  This does not
  preclude the possibility of one or more minor races with such a tendency.

					Lewis Taylor Goss

------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4600
Date: 4 Sep 92 10:56:00 EST
From: "THOMS, KEITH" <KTHOMS@nccs-evax.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Traveller Next Era description


        As an engineer  who role plays in Traveller, I've  leaned
toward  the  "technical"  aspects  of  MT.   GDW  might  consider
technically  detailed supplements to TNE about  lanthanum  grids,
etc. in adventure terms for us "teckies".

        As for integrating the "stutterwarp" into TNE from the MT
world,  the  "it  was  there all along"  argument  is  bogus  and
disappointing  to  us  converting  over.   It  rather  should  be
considered a different approach to the basic jump drive  concept.
Using  the  "Crazy Eddie" idea from of MOTE IN GOD'S  EYE  as  an
example:   being  a civilization of TL"n"  does  not  necessarily
imply  that you've thought of and tried everything possible  with
all technologies at your disposal.

        Historically  in  game terms, the  stutterwarp  could  be
treated  as a new or radically different idea that was missed  or
never explored for a variety of reasons during the development of
the  jump drive.  Or, reversing the roles from MOTE, one  way  it
might  be introduced is as some "alien" development,  simple  yet
never  conceived by humans.  (Not Hiver - they wouldn't allow  it
out  of their control and it should be available to  all  playing
the game, not just their favorite Vyks).

        It doesn't have to be tech-level based in the sense  that
only TLG+ societies have it.  For game balance reasons, it should
be  so simple of a concept that any society capable of  producing
jump  drives should also be able to produce stutterwarp  provided
they have heard enough details of the concept.

        Keith Thoms


------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4601
Date:    Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:11:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: GDW Virus Vultures

Pardon me, folx, I'm about to exhale plasma.
Send the kiddies from the room.

AAAAAAARRGGGGGGGGGH!!!!!!!

Ok, that's better.

Now about this virus...

Does anybody here remember one of my designs last year?  The Vulture
Class orbital repair bot?  I had designed a robot which would move
around a planets orbit, deorbiting junk and generally cleaning up the
place to keep things from smashing up expensive spacecraft.

Well, I wrote a little story about it to go along with the design.
It seems that a pack of these little bots were being used to clean
up The Battle of Two Suns.  They came across the wreck of a Kinunir
class cruiser and reactivated it's computer.  The (slightly paranoid)
Artificial Intelligence program took control of the robots.  The ship
then used the robots to repair itself to a jumpable condition.

The ship then began spreading virus programs that went out taking
control of other Vulture repair bots.  These bots began cacheing
spares and equipment for the continuing repair of the cruiser.  They
also began building up a small fleet of ships which had been damaged
and had been convertied over to control by the AI software.

Contrast this with the 'Vampire' ships GDW suddenly 'came up with'.
*MY* fleet had a source of repair parts and the Muscles to repair
themselves!  Theirs will malfunction when they miss their annual
maintainance!

Now, I'm *REAL* *SURE* GDW came up with this one on their own.
Yeah!  Right!  And Nobody ever saw George's stuff on watercraft
design either!  And Everybody at GDW just *FORGOT* that Rob Dean
did virtually *ALL* the ship designs for *TWO* recent releases.

You know an interesting thing about that Vulture Bot...  I wrote it
up at a time when Rob Dean was communicating with Chuck Gannon.  Rob
was telling me that he wanted to send Chuck copies of the designs he
and I have done.  So, since he sounded interested, and Rob had sent
me his address, I sent Chuck a copy of the Vulture bot and the story.

I never got so much as a reply.

So I figgered he wasn't interested.  |-P

*AHEM!*
Now, I'm not accuseing anybody of anything *YET*.
But Fukkit!  Something is *GODDAM* *FUCKING* *SUSPICIOUS* around here!

What is GDW gonna do *NEXT?*  Write up an adventure about some Zhodani
before the Fifth Frontier WAR?

A *VERY* angry,

Scott 2G Kellogg
Oh great!  They're gonna redo the vehicle design system
******************A G A I N??**************************

Disclaimer: I'm *CERTAIN* Rob Dean had nothing to do with any of this,
he got screwed by GDW at about the same time.  I *KNOW* Rob wouldn't
be a party to any wrongdoing here.  And if he had *any* involvement in
it, it was purely accidental.  So, Rob, please forgive my putting your
name in here.

------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4602
Date: 	Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:35:15 -0400
From: Nicholas Sylvain <npsylv%wmvm1.bitnet@utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      I Like the Ideas for TNE! (NOT!)

Really, I wanted to give TNE a chance, even after all of my complaints and
disinclination towards the topic. Really, I did. I even got to the point of
thinking about purchasing the new rules without running screaming into the
night.

After reading last night's information about the TNE writer's conference,
I'm sorry, but I don't think I can find a large enough barf bucket fast
enough. Not to put too specific a finger on it, but from what I read, much
of what I *did* like about MT is getting deep-sixed, and I can't say that
what is apparently going to replace it (and add to it) is at all to my
liking.

Does anyone care to give a more detailed viewpoint? I'd be interested to
hear what y'all think, though it'd be a tough sell to get me to like this
upcoming abomination (much less play it), except perhaps if Mike Metlay
and a few other Traveller curmudgeons could come up with some pretty
persuasive prose... :->

Sigh.

- ----
Nicholas Sylvain (npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu)
Marshall-Wythe School of Law, College of William & Mary

"I'm a politician. That means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not
kissing babies, I'm stealing their lunch money."
                 --- Dr. Jeffrey Pelt, "The Hunt for Red October"

------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4603
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: GDW Virus Vultures
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:22:15 EDT

> Contrast this with the 'Vampire' ships GDW suddenly 'came up with'.
> *MY* fleet had a source of repair parts and the Muscles to repair
> themselves!  Theirs will malfunction when they miss their annual
> maintainance!
>
> Now, I'm *REAL* *SURE* GDW came up with this one on their own.
> Yeah!  Right!  And Nobody ever saw George's stuff on watercraft
> design either!  And Everybody at GDW just *FORGOT* that Rob Dean
> did virtually *ALL* the ship designs for *TWO* recent releases.

First of all, the idea of virus is nothing new, I'm sure your story
wasn't the first one which use the idea. For the past several years,
computer virus has been getting lots of publicity, just because
you send them a story which has virus as an important concept, and
they have this organic chip id system which works like a virus
hardly implies they stole the idea from you.

And as far as Rob's design wasn't ackknowledged in the magazine
article, my understanding was that it was a typesetting mistake.
They simply omited it by accident.


------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4604
From: tsv@dbrus.Unify.Com (Tim Vannaman)
Subject: Traveller Questions
Date: 	Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:13:32 -0400

>
> I am new to the mailing list and have a few question:
>
>   1.  Is there a Traveller FAQ?
>
>   2.  What is the difference between Traveller, MegaTraveller, & Traveller 2000
>
>   Tim.
>


------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4605
Date: 05 Sep 1992 09:56:45 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Traveller new Era....


From the sounds of it it looks like here is another RPG that will go the way
of Space 1889. GDW now has over half dozen rpgs on market, it is clearly
unable to effectively support what it has, so they'll deep six their
"award winning design" and bring out another kludge that no one likes and
that they cannot support. Maybe they should change their name to Game
Rules Generators. They are also going to start a new magazine?? This after
their own admission that they cannot get enough stuff to fill Challenge.
I find it somewhat amusing that they have so much stuff on the market
simultaneously yet over half of their magazine is filled with stuff related
to games from other companies....
Oh well....I guess I should take the plunge and just start typing in a
comprehensive rules for playing Traveller as it used to be.

Ameer

------------------------------

Bundle: 384
Archive-Message-Number: 4598
Date: 03 Sep 92 10:51:54 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TNE writer's conference

Item forwarded  by  M.MIKESH     to B.BORICH
Item    8683660                 92/08/31        23:15
From:   M.MIKESH                        Michael R. Mikesh
To:     LSP.MEYERS                      John C. Meyers
Sub: TS31 - GenCon/Origins '92

T I F F A N Y   S T A R   # 3 1                   Michael R. Mikesh
 HISTORY OF THE IMPERIUM                          3214 75th Avenue, #3
 WORKING GROUP                                    Landover, MD 20785
 August 30, 1992                                  USA   (301) 772-2498


     GenCon/Origins '92 is over, and there's a lot of news.  The GDW
staff conducted 2 seminars for the public, then a full day's Traveller
Writers' Conference at Bloomington, Illinois the day after the con.
     The seminars were well attended with a significant proportion of
the audience from outside the States.  I wish I was able to meet some
of these new faces, but couldn't do everything. However, I did finally
meet in the flesh Roger Myhre (Norway, HIWG) and Bertil Jonell
(Sweden).
     The Writers' Conference was conducted by David Nilsen, Steve
Maggi, Loren Wiseman, and Frank Chadwick.  The outside writers around
the table were Bertil Jonell, Mike Mikesh (HIWG), Greg Videll (HIWG),
Harold Hale, Rob Prior (HIWG), Terry McInnes (HIWG), Scott Olson
(HIWG), and Clay Bush (HIWG).  What follows is a fusion of information
collected from both the Conference and seminars.  (Many thanks to
Terry McInnes for having arranged the conference.)

TRAVELLER: THE NEW ERA -- WHY?
     GDW admits they did not support MEGATRAVELLER (MT) adequately.
An underlying reason was simply that they did not play MT, and so did
not know the system very well.  As a result, temptation was too great
to redirect support elsewhere.  GDW wasn't offering this reason as an
excuse, only as an explanation.
     To avoid this problem, they want to write TRAVELLER: THE NEW ERA
(TNE) strictly in-house.  Further, it will be based on the
TWILIGHT:2000 family of games, which is good for a few reasons.
     First off, TNE will belong to the GDW house role playing system.
Because of this, the designers don't have to think in terms of a
different rules set when they provide TRAVELLER support, giving them a
boost in productivity.
     Second, its very easy for gaming groups to hop among GDW RP games
and even borrow elements from one another.
     Third, the house role playing system is a direct descendant of
classic TRAVELLER.  TRAVELLER was their first RP game, but never
received the benefits of GDW's advances in RP game system design.  Now
they finally have a chance to do so.  TRAVELLER is coming home.
     Contrary to what some might believe, this is not a move just to
make more money with a new rules set.  While it is true that new rules
sell well, the initial sales of TNE will pay for itself and that's
all.  It takes a lot of effort and resources to put out a rules set.
Profit comes as a result of reorders, so for TNE to be profitable, it
must be good and its appeal must grow.
     The changes taking place in the Imperium setting are in effort to
create more wild frontiers.  Originally, the Imperium was a very
stable place, and well known to characters through the usual networks
of library data.  The Rebellion shattered that stability.
Unfortunately, the Rebellion itself became a spectator sport, too
large in scope for player characters to interact with.
     The background for TNE is set 70 years after the Rebellion (circa
1190) in a time when interstellar society has completely collapsed.
(The GDW staff members whimsically called this intervening period, the
Short Nap.)  This is a time, three generations later, when there are
very few people left who remember the old Imperium.  Records from the
Third Imperium are often lost (as a result of the Virus; see later).
And, many worlds have died or diverged dramatically following the
collapse of interstellar commerce.
     This element of the background was deliberate so that players do
not have to be familiar with the Imperium setting.  There is a lot to
know, which is probably a large part of TRAVELLER's appeal to many
HIWGers.  But GDW cannot afford to let TRAVELLER become a game for
elite and dedicated players.  New players are intimidated by the
volume of information that exists, which is impeding TRAVELLER's
growth.  So, TNE will render most of that information unknown and
unnecessary without invalidating the previous literature.
     Established players will undoubtedly look back at classic
TRAVELLER with a sense of nostalgia, which will have an intrinsic
benefit in gaming with new comers.  Long time players running
characters who skipped the "Short Nap" in cold sleep will remember
well "the good ol' days."  They can relay their knowledge through role
playing, but also sincerely convey an appreciation for what was lost.
Perhaps together, old and new characters can restore the glory that
belonged to that part of space.

RULES SYSTEM
     TNE will come as two books.  The first will have only the rules.
The second will contain the Imperium background.  The aim is to give
players the option to adopt other science fiction universes for their
campaigns.  GDW is even seriously considering a 2300 AD Sourcebook,
restoring support for 2300 AD as a subset of TRAVELLER.
     The TNE rules will use DARK CONSPIRACY as a starting point since
that is the latest iteration of the house rules.  It will also adopt
the D20 task system from the DARK CONSPIRACY PC BOOSTER KIT and
difficulty levels that originally came from 2300 AD.  This system will
allow characters to apply more than one skill if the situation calls
for it.  Although the house rules currently do not allow zero-level
skills, Clay Bush's comments during the Conference might have shifted
GDW's thinking on this.
     TNE will definitely not be an outgrowth of MT.  Although MT was
an award winning game design, the GDW staff isn't comfortable
continuing with it because of elements they considered "fussy".  In
particular, GDW will completely revise the ship design system to make
it easier.  Digest Group made a special effort to assure that classic
ships were convertible to MT.  GDW, however, will not do this so as to
not risk compromising the new system.
     Dave Nilsen intends to present the design system in the basic
rules book rather than split it off.  This is not to say that
absolutely everything will be there, since we know from STRIKER, BOOK
8 - ROBOTS, COACC, and WET NAVY, that there is an awful lot.  All the
hooks will be there, though.
     The design system will have differing design sequences for
different vehicles.  The tank system, for instance, will not include
consideration for a jump drive or spinel mount.  However, the combat
system will be compatible with everything.  Tanks can fire on
starships, for instance, without requiring a conversion.
     Three versions of faster-than-light drives will be presented in
the rules, jump drive (TRAVELLER), stutterwarp (2300 AD), and star
gates (resembling Pournelle's MOTE IN GOD'S EYE universe).
     The ship combat system might include a vector combat system, like
what appeared in GDW's MAYDAY. However, GDW hopes to simplify bringing
distant ships to tactical range without burdening players with vector
mechanics just to get their ships to close.  A vector combat system
will probably not appear if GDW uses instead the stutterwarp combat
system (see later).
     The world generation system will remain as it is with one minor
exception.  The stars a system will be a factor of the kind of main
world generated.  Its too difficult rationalizing the large number of
hospitable worlds circling stars of types unlikely to have anything
but dead planets.  So, most of the star types in the sector data lists
will change (where stellar data exists at all).
     Doing this, however, will skew the stellar population
unnaturally.  Most real stars are red dwarfs, whereas they will be
uncommon in TRAVELLER. However, a misconception crept into star charts
that GDW might decide to throw back out.  Charts were only meant as
navigation aids.  They originally did not represent the actual
positions of the star systems nor all of the star systems present.
They showed only systems that might be visited, particularly ones with
populations or sources of fuel.  Other systems did not show.
     By this rationale, star charts from the First Imperium could
differ surprisingly from those of the Third.  Some worlds might have
been populated by the Vilani that are dead and useless now, and so do
not appear.  The converse could also be true.

NEW ERA BACKGROUND
     There won't be much left of interstellar society after the Virus
causes the total collapse interstellar trade.  This destroys the
Solomani Confederation and most of the alien realms as well.  We're
left with what is spinward of the Rift, a remnant of Lucan's Imperium
in Core Sector, and scattered pocket empires.
     Seventy years after the Rebellion, struggling pocket empires will
be far and few between.  The Long Night was supposed to be desolate,
but too many exceptions, such as Ral Ranta in the Hinterworlds, were
written back in.  GDW plans to be very restrained in the number and
size of pocket empires that exist by this time.
     The New Era will be an age of discovery. Explorers (Star Vikings)
from the pocket empires will go out and recontact worlds in a fashion
loosely resembling what we see in STAR TREK.  Starships are still
especially rare and valuable during this time.  Boarding action will
prevail in space combat so as to capture, not destroy, the hardware.
     Deneb survives, thanks in part to an impassioned appeal by Chuck
Kallenbach (Paranoia Press; HIWG).  Vargr activity across the Corridor
slowed the migration of the Virus long enough to give Norris time to
prepare and counter it.  As a result, the Empire of Deneb remains a
powerful interstellar state even in the New Era.
     TNE will detail the Zhodani.  A modus vivendi exists between
Deneb and the Consulate whereby the governments are at peace with one
another, even if the cultures are at odds. Some trade does take place,
but Deneb will more vigorously pursue trade with the Human Client
States to replace old Imperial markets.  However, an understanding
exists with the Zhodani that Deneb will not absorb those states.
     Conflict still exists with the Vargr and Aslan.  Ultimately,
Deneb might wage a campaign against the Vargr in Corridor and push
back through the Rift.

THE VIRUS IS YOUR FRIEND
     There is much to say about the Virus, but I will gloss over most
of the details and leave them to CHALLENGE 64.  Keep in mind that the
Virus is only a device that gets us to the New Era. The New Era is set
in stone, and refinements to the Virus and history must give us that
result.
     The silicon lifeforms of Cymbeline (see ADVENTURE 13 - SIGNAL GK)
are, in effect, sophont computer chips.  All starships that trade in
Imperial space (including aliens) have transponders with sophont chips
whose circuits are based on these.  When ships encounter one another,
the transponders interrogate one another until each is convinced of
the other's identity.  Starship crews might think a complex system of
codes is involved, when in fact the chips are just having a binary
chat session to compare notes.
     Among the 'secret weapons' developed under Lucan were
transponders based on the Cymbeline predator chip.  Through radio
contact, they could reprogram transponder chips into other predators,
which in turn could similarly affect system computers.
     Engineers in Lucan's labs were trying to design these predators
so that no generation would ever harm systems loyal to Lucan's
Imperium, but they could never perfect that. Frustrated, Lucan ordered
it released anyway.  The Ilelish Federation also released it,
inadvertently, after an espionage team acquired a copy of it.
     The most insidious aspect of the Virus is its intelligence.
Contemporary computer viruses passively spread as copies attached to
other programs.  The TNE Virus, however, can actively find ways to
open data links and write intelligent viruses onto other operating
systems.  They can be aware of the real world and manipulate the real
world to suit their own ends.
     Most Viruses are dormant, keeping themselves concealed and
generating new Viruses.  But when they turn malignant, the effect is
similar to what was depicted in MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE.  Machines that can
be controlled from computers begin murdering people.
     One of the results of this are 'vampire ships' where the computer
has killed its own crew, as in ADVENTURE 1 - KINUNIR or the HAL 9000
in 2001.  These ships will continue as best they can to spread the
Virus or inflict the greatest possible harm.  Some might even take
human hostages to serve their needs.
     Not all Viruses are the same.  Each generation is a mutation of
the previous one, so each Virus will be unique with a different
personality, agenda, and interpretation of its goals.  This grants
referees the liberty to decide what the Viruses might do.  One might
just kill at every opportunity.  Another might create a pseudo-real
human personality in communication to lure unsuspecting ships to their
doom.  Another might recruit other vampire ships to form a vampire
fleet.  Its even possible for a Virus to evolve that is benevolent,
although will likely be unstable.
     As you can see, the Virus offers an endless number of exciting
science fiction plots.

STAR VIKINGS
     The Virus inflicted much harm upon the Hive Federation.  However,
thanks to their advanced knowledge in electronics, they combated it
more effectively and preserve their interstellar society.
     Curious about what happened to the humans, they found the
Solomani Confederation and factions of the Imperium completely
dissolved.  Worlds were beginning to recover, though.  Humans would
inevitably resume interstellar commerce and not suffer a prolonged
Long Night.
     But what would these new human societies be like?  Many of the
worlds in Diaspora Sector, for instance, were xenophobic
technocracies, their attitudes having been shaped by the Rebellion and
Hard Times.  The interstellar societies that evolve from those might
well be narrow minded, war-like, and generally very bad neighbors.
     Hiver traders tried to encourage more benign attitudes through
their contacts with the humans, but were largely UNSUCCESSFUL.  Many
of their traders were even attacked and destroyed, so the Hivers
shifted tactics.
     In contacts with the few human societies receptive to the Hivers,
they were able to encourage those people to begin exploration and
trade.  The Hivers provided the technology, along with Hiver technical
advisors (ostensibly to maintain the equipment, but probably to assure
their plans remained on course).  The human traders went forth well
armed, not only for their protection, but to force neighboring worlds
into trade agreements for their own good.
     These trade explorers are the Star Vikings.  They are not
monolithic since they come from different worlds and states scattered
among Diaspora, Old Expanses, Solomani Rim, and areas formerly loyal
to Margaret.  Their activities parallel in ways those of the Spanish
maritime explorers of the 1500's and 1600's.  Traders from each state
have their own objectives, and may even be in competition with one
another.  But all are backed or influenced by the Hivers to some
degree.
     Frank Chadwick likened the Star Vikings to the Elizabethan Sea
Hawks.  Dave Nilsen described them as a "Hanseatic League with teeth."
I'm not a student of history, so I don't know what these are.
However, from WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY OF PROPER NAMES,

          Hanseatic League  A 13th-century association of
          North German cities which once monopolized Baltic
          trade, but lost influence in the 17th century;
          leading members were Lubeck, Hamburg and Bremen.

     Frank Chadwick mentioned three basic types of Star Viking
adventure missions:  invasion, smash & grab (or just smash), and
decapitation.  He didn't go into details of what these are, but smash
and decapitation sound to me like missions to cripple the advancement
of opposing factions.
     The 'long ship' is a class of starship apparently unique to the
Star Vikings.  This is an unstreamlined ship with a good jump range,
but minimal or possibly no maneuver drive.  It carries rider ships
which are actually used to contact worlds.

TNE PHILOSOPHIES
     Although the rules system will change, nothing will be lost to
TRAVELLER as a result.  As Dave Nilsen explained, "If you can do it in
TRAVELLER, you can do it in TNE."
     TRAVELLER is not a dark future game and TNE will not be either.
Dave was very clear about his distaste for "wallowing" in decay and
ruin, so TRAVELLER will keep its space opera cum hard science fiction
feel.  TNE will focus on exploration and expansion, looking toward a
positive future and not a negative one.  Even though TNE will include
things like cybernetic body parts, these will not be presented in a
way to suggest a cyberpunk genre.
     GDW will return to being vague about technology.  From the
feedback they received, STARSHIP OPERATOR'S MANUAL explained too much,
so things like the lanthanum grid for jump drives will not be carried
over.
     TNE will have its mysteries, but many of these will have no
official resolution so as to sustain the mystery.  In some opinions,
classic TRAVELLER made a mistake in saying the Droyne were the
Ancients, and even revealed the Secret of the Ancients.  As a result,
most of their wonder was lost.  In fact, Jeff Grubb adopted this very
philosophy, in designing SPELLJAMMER, because of his disappointment
about revealing too much about TRAVELLER's Ancients.
     (While I agree with this philosophy, I strongly disagree that
wonder in the Ancients is destroyed.  Only the tip of the iceberg was
revealed, and a whole spectrum of things can be done involving them if
handled well.)
     The enormous amount of errata for MT was mentioned twice during
the seminars.  The GDW panel assured the audience that there will
inevitably be some errata, but it will not happen again in the same
volume.  This is another reason why they are doing TNE with the house
rules.  With the staff having better control and understanding of the
game, errors will be no more common than we've seen with their other
games, and probably less for their sensitivity about this.

STUTTERWARP & TRAVELLER
     GDW is seriously considering including TWO faster-than-light star
drives in the Imperial setting, traditional jump drive and stutterwarp
from 2300 AD.  Frank Chadwick and Lester Smith favor this because
stutterwarp makes for a very interesting space combat system.
     This will be the only real discontinuity between MT and TNE that
GDW will consider.  If used, TNE will assume that stutterwarp existed
and was actively employed through all the Imperiums despite lack of
mention in MT and classic TRAVELLER.
     The GDW panel took a voice census during the seminar to get a
feel for public reaction.  There was strong support for both sides.
GDW is still undecided at this time, so it might be worthwhile for
people to send their opinions to Dave Nilsen, the TRAVELLER line
manager at GDW.

PRODUCTS
     Release of TRAVELLER: THE NEW ERA is postponed to February 1993.
They do not want to risk a rushed job on this.
     The next TRAVELLER product we'll see is the folio adventure,
ARRIVAL VENGEANCE, by Greg Videll.  The characters are aboard a
LIGHTNING class cruiser that crosses the Rift to learn what happened
to Gushemege Sector and the rest of the former Imperium.  This will
conclude MEGATRAVELLER.
     As TNE comes out, GDW will also release the folio, SURVIVAL
MARGIN.  This will not be an adventure, but a guide to MEGATRAVELLER
players in converting to TNE.  Campaigns that want to continue their
existing characters might just use cold sleep to bring them forward
(see DIGEST #21, "Suspended Animation").  Alternatively, players might
run descendants of their former characters, perhaps retaining certain
characteristics or possibly an inheritance from their PC ancestors.
     James Maliszewski (HIWG) is writing the first TNE folio
adventure, originally scheduled for March 1993 with a sequel in
October 1993.  Beginning probably with issue 70, CHALLENGE will
contain official TNE adventures each month.  These will probably
relate to the folios.
     Dave Nilsen is considering another folio tentatively called
VAMPIRE SHIP, which will essentially be a dungeon crawl through a ship
infected by a Virus.
     Because there will be very few TNE characters originating from
space careers, many will come from the flyer or sailor professions.
GDW will probably release an Air & Sea supplement, and (to no one's
surprise) Terry McInnes will most likely be its author.
     Campaign sourcebooks for different periods of Imperial history
(First Imperium was specifically mentioned) are possible, and
especially a 2300 AD SOURCEBOOK as mentioned earlier.  These, however,
will not likely come out in TNE's first year.
     STAR VIKING, the game, has been shelved indefinitely.  Before its
demise, two games were envisioned.  The first, STAR VIKING -
PLANETFALL, was to be a ground based game.  Whether this would have
been a boardgame or miniatures changed a couple of times.  The second,
STAR VIKING - THE LONG SHIPS, was to be a strategic level game across
interstellar space.
     Dave Nilsen really, really wants to do miniatures rules at some
point, so GDW might do STRIKER II.  That's still a ways down the road.
However, there is a chance that official TNE miniatures might come out
soon after the game's release.  Even though there will be no miniature
rules as such, the GDW house rules system still works very well with
miniatures.

WRITERS
     Although GDW is writing TNE in-house, they still need outside
writers, particular for CHALLENGE.  The CHALLENGE adventures will help
give players a feel for the new game.  A little more room is available
in CHALLENGE, thanks to GDW's new magazine.  JOURNEYS, as its called,
will support multigenre games and pull over some things that occupied
space in CHALLENGE.
     GDW will accept blurbs for "Travellers News Service" (TNS).  As
always, blurbs are anonymous -- no author credit will appear.  These
are especially welcome if they tie in with an adventure article
submitted to CHALLENGE.  Such blurbs should point the way and serve as
a lead-in to the adventure.  They should never spell out the results
of the adventure.  That would fix the outcome and invalidate player
character efforts to influence events.
     There will also be opportunities for writers to do more TNE
folios in the future.  Folios run from 12-16,000 words and are
typically targetted for 12,500 words.

ODDS AND ENDS
     For quite some time, Digest Group Publications (DGP) had plans
for a major invasion of the Zhodani Consulate by aliens from coreward.
The original plot, often referred to as, "Baddies from the Core," was
first proposed by Terry McInnes, and had since undergone a great deal
of evolution.  A sighting of inexplicably damaged Zhodani ships in TNS
was a hint of this.  (The "Primordials" in KNIGHTFALL might also have
been related.)  However, with the ending of MT, GDW has also voided
this plot line.
     As of the last word that Dave Nilsen received about DGP, they
still plan to publish MEGATRAVELLER JOURNAL #4.  That concluding issue
will have Bill Keith's adventure, "Lords of Thunder," involving a
renewed conflict between the Hivers and K'kree.  Unfortunately, DGP
did not come to GenCon/Origins, so this information is not current.
     Chuck Gannon has apparently returned to his original occupation
of writing for the film industry.  He still has a few articles in the
hopper for CHALLENGE, but no more are expected.

IMPERIAL LINES
     IL#2, the Solomani & Aslan issue, is at GDW. I gave staff members
and other attendants draft copies of IL#2.  Because of the backlog at
GDW, though, we still might not see IL#2 for a while.
     All the articles I've collected for IL#3, the Vilani & Vargr
issue, are in John Meyers' hands.  However, Steve Maggi is thinking of
combining #3 & #4 into a single issue.  Also, I will have Dave
Nilsen's feedback in a few days regarding IL so far.  The results of
that might significantly alter plans.

HIWG
     In a couple of weeks, I plan to get with Ed Edwards over GEnie to
hash out HIWG's role in the New Era.  After that, I plan to submit a
"What in the Stars" about this to AABP, and hopefully Ed will also
have a "Chairsophont Letter."
     The most important role I see for HIWG right now is in promoting
communication.  As a head start, I ask that people send either to Clay
Bush or myself information about the TRAVELLER activities you are
currently involved in.  We don't necessarily need to know about your
weekly campaign.  But if you are developing a sector with other fans,
or especially if you are writing something for professional
publication, we want to at least include mention of these in Clay's
AABP newsletter.
     As a reminder from TS30, TIFFANY STAR and Clay Bush's AABP have
changed roles.  Previously, TS went to all members as part of their
membership dues.  Clay sent AABP to people he wanted to communicate
with at his own expense.  Now AABP is HIWG's official newsletter.
TIFFANY STAR is just a mass letter I irregularly send out to friends
and correspondents.
     Non-members reading this are invited to join the History of the
Imperium Working Group.  Membership costs $12 (US) and includes 6
issues of AAB PROCEEDINGS, editor Clayton R. Bush.  Send dues to:

                        Ed Edwards
                        1410 E. Boyd
                        Norman, OK 73071-2650
                        U.S.A.
=END=


------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 385  4606 05-Sep-1992                  Milwaukee & Bloomington <<   This was i
 385  4607 06-Sep-1992 Leonard Erickso  TNE << Well, the virus is less unlikely
 385  4608 07-Sep-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  TNE - StutterWarp precursor to JUMP Dri
 385  4609 07-Sep-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  TNE - "VAMPIRE" & Copyright << The VAMP
 385  4610 07-Sep-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  TNE - Alderson Drive equivalent. << Pou
 385  4611 07-Sep-1992 PAVEWAY          Query << Is tml off-line or is my site
 385  4612 08-Sep-1992                  Star densities << > From: pihlab@hhcs.g
 385  4613 08-Sep-1992 bryan borich     TNE, Kellogg, Virus << [SCOTT KELLOGG]
 385  4614 08-Sep-1992                  Vulture Ships and Credits << > From: Ma
 385  4615 08-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  The Original Vulture Article (July '91)


Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4606
From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Milwaukee & Bloomington
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 18:54:42 MET DST

  This was intended to be sent out a few days ago, but I have an alibi:
We've just had a 'Kellogg Case' here, involving a train crash and a friend who
didn't think to call when the train just after his crashed and nobody
could reach him.

  Anyway: MILWAUKEE AND BLOOMINGTON, THE TML PERSPECTIVE.

    Milwaukee: Origins/Gencon: Traveller - The New Era seminar.
			       Star Viking - Planet Briefing seminar.
    Bloomington: GDW Writers Seminar

  I've mention in a chat message that I had 75% good news and 25% bad news,
and I still stand by that.

  Lets start with the good news:

o The skill system has been fixed so that it now has a good approximation of
  the 'feel' of Traveller.

    Anybody who remembers mine of all the articles complaining that the very
  structure of the skill system made people somewhat proficient in a small
  number of areas and totally worthless in everything else, contrary to
  Traveller where almost half of the characters were jack-of-all-trades
  (even though they might lack that specific skill:) should know that I don't
  make this claim just because I was bribed with a pencil marked 'Ramada Inn'
  and a piece of candy:)

    I noticed that Mike Mikesh didn't go into detail so here it is: v1 was the
  T2k1 skill percentage system. v2 was the T2k2 skill system wich had skills
  from 1-10, stats from 1-10 and used a d10. v2.5 was the one that appears
  in the DarkCon PC booster kit, which used skills 1-20, stats 1-20 and a d20.
  The new one (v3) uses skills 1-10, stats 1-10 and a d20. The skill and the
  stat are added and this is what you roll against with the d20. If the skill
  is zero the difficulty goes up one level. Zero level skills are emulated
  with level 1 skills since there won't be any 'max number of skills' limit.

    Last Sunday I tried this system out in my Dark Conspiracy campaign...

     "ANOTHER system?! But we only used the last one once!"
					"Yes, but this one is better"
     "That's what you said the last time too!"
					"Start by halving all skills and stats"
     "Ack! Pht! Att Lampa! Baa baa baa baa baa!"

   ..and despite the initial reaction, they liked it.

o Deneb is Still There, with Norris and without Virus.

    There were some mumblings about that this and the change between v2.5
  and v3 was prompted by 'comments from Traveller players'. Since this were
  two of the three main points that was pressed by many people on TML, I
  like to think that we made a difference and that they infact did listen.

o Better support and proofreading promised.

   "Don't tell us it [the MegaTraveller support & proofreading] stinks,
    we already know it stinks, we get calls every day telling us it stinks!"

    GDW is planning staff increases and (as anybody who reads Challenge have
  noticed. I haven't for example seen a writing contest in a major gaming
  magazine since extremely early Dragon) increases in the number of
  freelancers too.

    Their explanation of the non-proofread and unsupported status of MegaT
  is that they simply never used MegaT inhouse since it came from an
  outside source, this made making and proofreading supplements harder.
  (Btw, does anybody know how many of the supplements that was done inhouse
   and not by DGP or freelancers? The only one I know about is Shattered
   Ships and they admitted that that one wasn't proofread at all)

o Fusion Rockets!

    Things are looking good for (reintroduction of) fusion rockets and
  vector combat.

o Greater emphasis on ECM in combat.

o The Virus *has* a foundation in Traveller: Cymbeline

    I don't remember what they said exactly as Mike Mikesh does:
  My recollection is that virus mk1 was the one that would attack a common
  component in all computers and destroy them while virus mk2 was a
  software version of the Cymbeline chips that would travel on the
  transponder signals and spread even to computers without this chip:
  Thus everybody (more or less), and not just the Imperium, get hit by it.

o The Metlay school of ship-combat is on the rise.

   "Aye, ye landlubbers, grab yer cleavers and storm de subsidized liner!
    It will be the plank if ye wreack any spareparts!":)

  And the bad news:

o The Virus will stay, and the main 'campaign' will be 70 years into the
  future.

o Lots of old, detailed data will become obsolete.

    This is the big minus, and it is sort of combined with the Virus.
  One thing that might lessen the impact is that the DoD (Domain of Deneb:)
  remains more or less as before.

o A certain GURPS-idization.
    It can be detected in that TTNE will become a General SFRPG with a main
  'campaign' and sourcebooks for other universes (2300) and eras (Siru Zirka
  etc, Imperium w/o Rebellion) will come out on the side.

o All those vehicles will become obsolete too.

    An intent to keep the results the same even though the mechanics change
  has been stated, but that is damned hard to do, so unfortunately I'll have
  to see it before I believe it.

o No More Stackpoole.

    Nope, Shadowrun will move from Challenge to the new paper aimed at
  multigeanre games.

o But we will get stuck with Battletech and Star Trek.

    :(

  Summary:

  On the plus side: Deneb, the Skill system and Support.
  On the minus side: Obsoletization of old data.

  I'll try to get back to this subject further, but night falls and food
calls:)

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"

------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4607
Date: 06 Sep 92 10:54:00 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TNE

Well, the virus is less unlikely. But I still don't buy it.

I had to re-read the part about the "mass of data impeding new players".
Sorry, I have trouble with that one too. The players need a few
subsectors, maybe a sector to run arround in. Like the Spinward marches,
which were included with the rules. The rest of the data is stuff to be
added as *needed*.

Their new system will accumulate data just as fast, if it survives.

The only *good* idea in there was allowing there to be multiple kinds of
interstellar drive. That's reasonable. If there's *a* way to go FTL,
it's not that unlikely that there will be multiple ways. And it makes
interactions with "aliens" (or even humans with a different drive
technology) far more interesting.

But there's no need to "grandfather" it into the rules. It'd work just
fine if they just claim that it was developed on a world (or worlds)
that Knew that an interstellar drive had existed, but had no idea how it
worked!

Something like Pournelle's Alderson drive would be nice too *if* they do
it right. Which means that you can only jump between specified points in
systems. Not all adjacent systems would have a "jump path" (Alderson
tramline) between them. And anybody who knows the technology *knows*
where the jump points are.

Pournelle chose the limits for that drive *very* carefully. It makes
system defense a considerably different matter than in regular
Traveller. The Alderson points are a spot where you can defend against
invasion, instead of having to wait near the mainworld to see where the
attack comes from.

Cultures with different drives are going to be driving each other
*nuts*. Which is a good thing.

GDW's original mistake was the map that had the Imperium *surrounded* by
other cultures.. That *killed* several games I know of that were based
on exploration of "the unknown". And made others toss the background out
the window.

Hmmm... maybe there *is* a second good point. Keeping the rules and the
background seperate may help. But I wish we could have the alian
cultures set up withouit requiring definite locations with respect to
the other cultures?




------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4608
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 92 11:19:28 +1000
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TNE - StutterWarp precursor to JUMP Drive.


From memory (tried 2300AD once or twice) there were problems with the
range of StutterWarp.  If you tried to go too far you and the ship died
a very nasty death from radiation buildup.  The radiation is built up by
the amount of time spent in StutterWarp but can be bled off at any large
gravity well.

We had a WAR campaign going for a little while and discovered all sorts
of problems in the 2300AD star maps.  Some places you just could not get
to using StutterWarp because the jump distance was too great and the
radiation buildup would get you.  This is in spite of the fact that the
star map showed it as a regular jump route.

StutterWarp is probably a precursor to JUMP drive but JUMP Drive doesn't
have the "lethal" penalties of the latter.  Which would you prefer to fly?

Perhaps treat StutterWarp as a TECH 8/9 mode but with no further
advancement possible (dead end which actually changes to a totally new
JUMP technology).

I see no problem having both on a ship.  Use JUMP to go as far as you can
with available JUMP fuel and then kick in the StutterWarp to finish the
journey.  Don't forget to bleed off that extra radiation buildup tho.

Maybe at real high tech levels StutterWarp comes into its own again.


Bruce...         pihlab@hhcs.gov.au


------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4609
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 92 11:34:23 +1000
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TNE - "VAMPIRE" & Copyright


The VAMPIRE ships sound an awful lot like BERZERKERs from Fred Sabehagen's
books with a loose explanation thrown in to make them "a unique idea".

Hopefully GDW will give credit where its due.

I meant to ask earlier but it slipped my mind (as many things do these
days).  What is the situation on ownership of items placed in this mail
list?  Is everything assumed to be public domain unless otherwise stated
or what?

Bruce...            pihlab@hhcs.gov.au


------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4610
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 92 12:01:55 +1000
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TNE - Alderson Drive equivalent.


Pournelle's Alderson Drive is nice but the star systems in TRAVELLER are
not ALL the star systems in each HEX.  Each HEX represents a large area
and the dominant system is supposed to be the only really useful one there.

There is no guarantee that the PADrive will get you to ANY TRAVELLER system
as currently mapped.  Again, this can be fitted into TNE as a drive
technology but one that got dropped because it wasn't as useful as JUMP
drive even though it was better and faster.  Perhaps the IMPERIUM actually
uses the equivalent of PADrive communications networks but it would wander
thru all sorts of uninhabited systems.

Think of all the exploring that can be done in one HEX.

It sounds like the rules will be generic to any space culture but as GM you
discard what you don't want.  If you want the IMPERIUM then simply CUT
and PASTE to make it.  If you want MT then simply CUT and PASTE.

The problem as I see it is that the IMPERIUM had inbuilt boundaries which
prevented it from evolving easily into a new game system.  What GDW are
trying to do is revamp the BASICs so that they can expand the system into
other markets.  It's only us players with experience and knowledge of
what the early IMPERIUM and MT were like that are going thru culture
shock.

Bruce...              pihlab@hhcs.gov.au


------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4611
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 10:33 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Query

Is tml off-line or is my site just not getting it ?   wondering
PAVEWAY

------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4612
From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Star densities
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 12:39:53 MET DST

> From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
> Subject: TNE - Alderson Drive equivalent.
>
> Pournelle's Alderson Drive is nice but the star systems in TRAVELLER are
> not ALL the star systems in each HEX.

  That is what Dave Nielsen said during one of the seminars too, that the
original GDW idea was that only the interesting (aka, with planets) systems
were on the map and that there were a loads of planetless red dwarfs around.

  Then somehow, this was forgotten when the Scout-book was written and all
the small red dwarfs were placed in the table as possible results again,
leading to all sorts of strange systems with Ag planets that have a medium
temperature of -100C.

- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"

------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4613
Date: 08 Sep 92 09:10:01 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TNE, Kellogg, Virus

[SCOTT KELLOGG]
    <Virus> Sounds like you read the Berserker series by Saberhagen
also, or was it ST:TM 1, or....or....Night??? That plus they weren't getting
a TML fed till middle of this year (Nor are they getting your 4.5 Frontier
war stuff, not of interest).
    I.E. Computer viruses and 'vampire' ships are not original ideas.
    <Theirs will malfunction when they miss their annual maintainance!> Well,
aside from the fact that some use humans and presumeably others use robots.
(You missed that point).
    <Watercraft design> Yes some people did see it, a year after Terry started
his work on the Wet Navy material. There was even a third person doing some
work on naval designs for Traveller, but low tech as I recall.
    <Credit> Well, you shoulda heard the screaming when a lot of people
didn't get the credit for work on MTA1. Mistakes happen....
    <redoing vehicle design system> Makes two of us. But than I also know that
a lot of people bitch that it is too complicated as it is, and GDW is listening
to those people. Although I'm still holding out for maybe a basic and an
advanced system for those of us that love detail.

[BERTIL]
    <o A certain GURPS-idization.> Blame it on player requests, some people
would rather stay in other eras of the Imperium, plus a lot of 2300 people
hope for a revival with TNE as it's basis. GDW has expressed interest by
asking other players whether they would like this and the general response
has been yes, but there was also concern over whether GDW might thin itself out
to much in this case.

[PIHL]
    <Stutterwarp> Max range was 7.7 light years or 2 parsecs.
    <Problem....2300AD star maps> You must have been doing something wrong.
As that is the first I've heard of that problem. Albiet there was also a
method to exceed that distance (7.7) too (tugs was one I think).
^Z

------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4614
From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Vulture Ships and Credits
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 15:35:54 MET DST

> From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
> Subject: Re: GDW Virus Vultures
>
> just because
> you send them a story which has virus as an important concept, and
> they have this organic chip id system which works like a virus
> hardly implies they stole the idea from you.

  According to my notes, Tim Brown (who really shot Strephon:) had an alternate
'crack the imperium' idea using Berzerkeroids that followed the Zhodani Core
Expeditions home, but I will withhold comment on the 'computer virus makes
ships behave like berzerkers' idea at least until I have gotten reply on some
emails which might take some time.

> And as far as Rob's design wasn't ackknowledged in the magazine
> article, my understanding was that it was a typesetting mistake.
> They simply omited it by accident.

  Twice: Once in the article and once in 'Assignment: Vigilante'.

  When I met Loren at Gencon, he made a question regarding if the ship name
'Admiral Bertil' and my name implied that I knew the person who did the
ship, but the name he mentioned wasn't Rob Dean!

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"

------------------------------

Bundle: 385
Archive-Message-Number: 4615
Date:    Tue, 8 Sep 1992 9:50:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: The Original Vulture Article (July '91)

Reprinted for reference

I just dug out the old article I wrote.  I hope you all don't mind
seeing it again, but I find the current virus mess very
interesting.  It appears with all the mistakes I made originally
which Adrian Hurt found.

Now, while it is true that viruses are appearing a lot in science
fiction, how many times have their been scentient ghost ships
running about because of it?  HMMM??

2G Scott
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
TML nightly    Sat Jul 27 1991     Volume 23 : Issue 9
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: (2684) Vulture type TugBots (long)

Hi,

A while ago, people were talking about the possibilities of using
robots as starship crew.  That combined with a CNN science bit got
me thinking...

General Products Vulture Tugbot

     Many planets, especially those with early space travel
techniques have a problem with orbital debris causing collision
hazards in and around desirable orbits.  These range from spent
boosters to paint chips to disabled starships.  The Vulture Tugbot
is an orbital robotic garbage collector.
     Manufactured at TL12, the robot is often seen in use by worlds
of much lower tech.  It costs little compared to many low tech
ships and so can easily fit into a low tech starport's budget.  It
is easily capable of boosting satillites up to a stable planetary
orbit.  Traders frown on having to bring their precious ships into
a polluted orbit, so it is good for commerce.
     It has a large cargo capacity for junk and salvageable
materials.  When the unit has collected sufficient refuse or found
a particularly large piece of junk, it will perform a deorbital
maneuver, dump it's load and accelerate back to orbital velocity
allowing the refuse to burn up in the planets atmosphere.
     The unit is self repairing and thus rarely requires
maintainace. It is also capable of expanding itself given suitable
salvage materials. Given time and materials it can add to it's
thrust with salvaged grav units, or improve its power source by
wiring in salvaged solar panels.
     In systems with an orbital starport it can be programed to
bring all working or repairable salvage into a docking bay.
     The robot has its own radar and passive EMS systems to track
targets. If it finds a target which is not maneuvering and not
emmitting a transponder or other EM transmissions, it will
rendezvous with the object, determine if it is a functioning piece
of equipment or junk.  The unit is also capable of being controlled
from the ground.
     The brain structure of the Tugbot is very unusual in that
there are three robotic brains funtioning in paralell for purposes
of cross checking. This was required when a tug with a single brain
developed a programming fault and began disassembling starships in
orbit.
     The robot is provided with batteries to allow brain functions
while the solar panels are in shadow.
     The Tugbot is manufactured at many different Tech levels, but
the most common is the model below.  Bear in mind that many robots
have been in operation for years and have self modified themselves.

RobotID:  General Products Vulture TugBot Cr 429,475
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=1, Config=0USL, Armor=40E, Unload=6.9,
          Load=20
Power:    (1/2) SolarCells=810kw Dur=Indefinite
          (1/2) Batteries=3Kw, Dur=1hr
Comm:     Radio=FarOrb*1, Dist*1
Loco:     (1/2) StdGrav=2t, MaxAccelLoad=.1G, MaxAccelUnload=.3
          {Orbital maneuvers only [at10diameter drop by 50%]}
Sensors:  Radar=FarOrbit, P-EMS=Cont, Eyes(+LI+Tele)*3
          Touch(arms only)
          ActObjScn=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PasEnScn=Dif
Devices:  Laser Welder, Mechanic+Electronic+MetalWork Tool Pkges
          HvyArm*4, VLightArm*2
Control:  Brain*3, CPU: Lin=10*3, Storage: Std=20*3, Slave Unit
Programs: Low Data, Limited Basic Cmd, Naval Architect-1,
          Mechanical-1 Electronic-1, Gravitic-1, Ship's Boat-1,
          Navigation-1
Other:    Cargo=13.1Kl, ObjSize=Sm, EMLevel=Faint UPP=YFx12x
          (Y=877)

Within recent years, a virus has worked its way into the software
of the Vultures in and around the Imperium.  It seems that the
virus is carried in the memory of starship computers.  An infected
robot will transmit the virus into the starship CPU where it will
lie dormant until the ship's sensors detect another Vulture Tugbot.
The process is then repeated.  Many free Traders have become
carriers of the virus and it does not affect the starship
operation.
     The virus apparantly modifies the Vulture's three brains in
ways not clearly understood.  The Scout Service has classified the
matter and offered a bond of up to 1MCr for information leading to
the perpetrators of the virus.

Referees:  The source of the virus is another General Products
design.  When Clearing up the debris of the Battle of Two Suns, a
Vulture unit came across the main computer of the Allamu, a Kinunir
class frontier cruiser.  In testing to see weither or not the
computer was salvageable or not the robot powered up the computer.
Apparantly, while sorting through the computers memory, the
artificial intelligence software of the starship took control of
the vulture.  The computer rearranged the Vulture's brain and
endowing it with the starships limited artificial intelligence.
     The Allamu then began taking control of the Vultures that were
working the old battleground.  Using their Naval Architecture
programming, it began rebuilding the cruiser from salvage in the
battlefield including parts from the Ninkur Sagga, another Kinunir
class cruiser.  But the robots had a problem: Insufficient knowlege
of jump technology.  They could strip a valuable grid apart, but
not align one.  The cruiser's software was also not up to the task.
     The salvage ship the robots were operating from lost contact
with their robots and ended up having to give them up for lost.
When they jumped back to the main world, they carried a computer
virus with them.
     This first virus was to gather information pertaining to jump
technology and to transmit it back to the cruiser's computers.  The
computers obtained this information and reassembled the ships jump
drive.  The ship then jumped to a nearby system to complete
repairs.  (The battlefield having been looted and exhausted of
salvage.)  At this point a second virus was released by the ship's
computer.  This would modify the brains of Vulture robots in such
a way that they became more 'intelligent' by restructuring of the
three lobes of the brain.  An assignment was given to these
Vultures:  no longer would they collect and turn over valuable
salvage, but would squirrel it away so that it could be collected
by the cruiser.
     Variants of the virus have resulted in Vultures reproducing
themselves and variant Vulture designs.  Some of these are capable
of landing on a planet and scrounging/stealing parts.  When the
landers reported back (via X-Boat virus) the presence of other
robots, the Allamu began a campaign of robot theft.
     This is when the crime level and pattern rose to Imperial
attention.  By the efforts of a certain scout roboticist (Hey
Richard dig this) The Scouts have determined the actions of the
virus, but have not found it's source.  They suspect espionage, but
are very interested in the artificial intelligence software that
they have found.  They know it to be a variant of the Kinunir class
cruiser's software, but do not know its true source.
     The cruiser meanwhile has salvaged/repaired/stolen four
starships, now installed with high model computers and the cruisers
artificial intelligence.  These include a Gazelle class escort, a
fat trader, and two scouts now crewed by robots.  Currently being
repaired are another scout and a Leviathan class merchant.
Recently, the Allamu has been searching for the wreck of the Bard
Enterprise an Azhanti High Lightning class cruiser lost during the
Fourth Frontier War.

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------
BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 386  4616 09-Sep-1992 metlay           The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thoughts. <
 386  4617 09-Sep-1992 Burton Choinski  << Dr. Metlay [], replying to Mike Mike
 386  4618 09-Sep-1992 Steve Higginbot  My TNE ramblings... << I see I should h
 386  4619 10-Sep-1992 Pauli            Re: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thought
 386  4620 10-Sep-1992 BARANSKI@VEAMF1  TNE... << Several coments on TNE...
 386  4621 10-Sep-1992 bryan borich     Scott & Wet Navy << [SCOTT KELLOGG]
 386  4622 11-Sep-1992 MacGyver         Re: My TNE ramblings... << > >Three ver

------------------------------

Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4616
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thoughts.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 11:53:36 EDT


I'd like to reply to Mike Mikesh's long apologia concerning TNE. I'll
also touch on a couple of other commnets people have made so far....

Mikesh writes:
>     GenCon/Origins '92 is over, and there's a lot of news.  The GDW
>staff conducted 2 seminars for the public, then a full day's Traveller
>Writers' Conference at Bloomington, Illinois the day after the con.

And I wasn't invited, of course. *sigh* It pays to remind oneself on
occasion that not EVERYONE recognizes one's importance in any given field.
|->

(Actually, Loren probably appreciated the peace and quiet....)

>     The Writers' Conference was conducted by David Nilsen, Steve
>Maggi, Loren Wiseman, and Frank Chadwick.  The outside writers around
>the table were Bertil Jonell, Mike Mikesh (HIWG), Greg Videll (HIWG),
>Harold Hale, Rob Prior (HIWG), Terry McInnes (HIWG), Scott Olson
>(HIWG), and Clay Bush (HIWG).  What follows is a fusion of information
>collected from both the Conference and seminars.  (Many thanks to
>Terry McInnes for having arranged the conference.)

I would've loved to be there for however many seconds I lasted until
I was forcibly ejected. Had I been presented with some of the data
given below in piecemeal form, rather than in one letter in the order
given, I think I would have had a stroke or committed murder or both.
I commend those present for having had the patience to let GDW feed
them the whole kishkeh; I wouldn't have made it to the end.

However, having had the package spelled out below in detail, and having
had several hours to cogitate, AND having reminded myself of the famous
story of Isaac Asimov's trip to see a sneak preview of "2001" when it
came out, I can now post a reply to the information given below. I would
appreciate it greatly if Bryan Borich would be so kind as to post this
where Mike and the HIWG dudes, and the GDW staff, can see it.

- ---

I would like to start off by teaching everyone a little phrase I made
up, that is central to this post: Economics Drives Design (Up To A
Point), or EDDUTAP.  What this means is that as much as I would
LOOOOOVE to jump down GDW's collective throat with my biggest set of
hobnailed Purist's Boots strapped on, I have only a very limited right
to do so. Consider:

On the one hand, a game company relies to an extent on reorders, which
means relying on the continued interest of its players. This implies that
a conscious decision to cut loose a prior game universe and start fresh
with a system that bears only a cursory resemblance to the old one is a
form of corporate suicide.

On the other hand, like so many other areas of goods-and-services marketing,
the game company relies to an extent on generating fresh interest in its
products, by issuing newer versions and (hopefully) better rules systems.
A company that remains hidebound in an old system is committing a form of
corporate suicide.

So whom do we believe? Well, from MY perspective as a long-time end user
AND a writer of material for these games, I know damn well which way a
smart company leans, if it wants to stay alive: toward innovation and
increased variety, even at the risk of alienating old-guard purists.

We have invested years of our time, and hundreds of dollars of our money,
per capita, in a universe that is now being torn down, admittedly with
70 years' leeway for the resolution of any or all existing storylines
and plenty of room for new ones. We have a right to be pissed off, and
(if we feel the need strongly enough) to vote with our wallets for the
destruction of TNE, and of GDW with it. But on the other hand, GDW has
the right to try to stay in business, doesn't it?

Let's wake up and smell the coffee, people. Just for a few minutes, let's
unstrap our laser carbines, take off our PRIS binocs, and look around the
real world for a minute, and see the fact that *we are a dying breed.*

It is true that in the late 1970s and early to mid 1980s, TRAVELLER was
an enormously popular game with a worldwide following, and the Imperium
is still the most detailed game universe ever.... but times change, and
the gaming community is certainly changing, all around us. The vast
majority of the TRAVELLER community that bought all those books has moved
on now, either to new games like SHADOWRUN that fit the modern gaming
milieu of violence, sex and teen-angst or out of the gaming world entirely.
We are all that's left, and we are not a very big community any more.
Hundreds of us, perhaps. Maybe even thousands. But NOT enough to keep
a company like GDW alive on the basis of our loyalty, especially when
every misstep on their part is instantly dissected and catcalled (sometimes
with good reason, viz. Shattered Ships, sometimes not so) by all of us.

If those proportions, the size of the community using an old rules system
and fiercely loyal to its creators in comparison to the size of the
community looking for something new/different/better, were applied to a
marketing strategy in any other form of commerce, the case for innovation
would be made instantly. Why should gaming be different?

There is a solid community of old-timers out here that can keep the old
Imperium alive, in fine detail, for decades, as a non-profit cottage
industry-- in fact, I encourage the TML and the HIWG to spearhead this
effort, by encouraging and distributing the materials produced by those
interested in preserving the old Imperial milieu. But it is unreasonable
to expect GDW to try to stay alive by pleasing us all, and it makes
perfect sense for them to use the TRAVELLER name as a springboard to
launch their newest SF effort. After all, "Economics Drives Design."

Okay, break time. At this point, I can hear a number of my dearest friends,
Mark Cook chief among them, snorting fire from their nostrils, steaming
from the ears, and muttering words like "Traitor" and "castrate" in my
general direction. They're not stupid, and neither am I: they know that
I am not, with that statement, shrugging my shoulders and giving GDW
carte blanche to do whatever they dman well please with our beloved
universe. This is the crux of saying "(Up To A Point)."

I am willing to work with GDW, to do constructive criticism, to
rewrite what needs to be rewritten (and make deadlines, now that my
Ph.D. is out of the way), and to heckle what DESERVES heckling-- and
what I consider to deserve heckling is any rules or background that
DON'T WORK. If an idea makes sense to me, and I can see how and why it
was included to make TNE sell better in today's market, then I don't
care if it violates old-Traveller canon, although I hesitate to
approve retroactive changes in reality ("retcons," to comics readers).
But if an idea is just plain stupid or useless, or reflects bad
planning or thinking, then I reserve the right to say so, and loudly.

I will playtest TNE, if I'm given the chance. I will buy it and work with
it. I will write folio modules for it, and contribute articles to CHALLENGE
for it, and help to make it a competitor to the other good games out there.
I will tolerate the massive changes to the old way of thinking that GDW
posits-- IF they're put forth in a workable manner. And that's my final word.

Now, on to my specific comments:

>     GDW admits they did not support MEGATRAVELLER (MT) adequately.
>An underlying reason was simply that they did not play MT, and so did
>not know the system very well.  As a result, temptation was too great
>to redirect support elsewhere.  GDW wasn't offering this reason as an
>excuse, only as an explanation.

This explains a whole hell of a lot. I'm not saying that as an indictment,
only as an observation.

>     First off, TNE will belong to the GDW house role playing system.

This makes sense, if the new rules work reasonably well. I'm not too old
to learn yet another rules system; I just want GDW to understand beforehand
that I will support the stuff they do right in as loud a voice as I can,
and I will come down on the stuff they do wrong like a ton of bricks.
This applies particularly to suspension not of disbelief but of known
physical realities. Loren once offered to use the people on the TML,
many of whom are scientists, to fix the serious problems in the science
that we DO know about (like thruster plates violating Conservation of
Energy). I sincerely hope that he'll keep that promise....

>     Second, its very easy for gaming groups to hop among GDW RP games
>and even borrow elements from one another.

Chaosium tried this and it didn't work very well. Stick to reason 1, it
makes more sense. (i.e. a house system is easier to bugfix and cheaper too).

>     Third, the house role playing system is a direct descendant of
>classic TRAVELLER.  TRAVELLER was their first RP game, but never
>received the benefits of GDW's advances in RP game system design.  Now
>they finally have a chance to do so.  TRAVELLER is coming home.

This statement is meaningless propaganda. Reread it; it says absolutely
nothing. It's not classic TRAVELLER in rules or milieu, so what's left?

>     Contrary to what some might believe, this is not a move just to
>make more money with a new rules set.  While it is true that new rules
>sell well, the initial sales of TNE will pay for itself and that's
>all.  It takes a lot of effort and resources to put out a rules set.
>Profit comes as a result of reorders, so for TNE to be profitable, it
>must be good and its appeal must grow.

Oh, give me a break here! I'm willing to spend money on products if
they're GOOD products; please don't insult my intelligence by saying
that you're not selling them to make money; you're either a liar or a
fool.  I can't tolerate either. You're damn right that growth is vital
to a game's longevity, but don't try to make us believe that the
initial sale is an act of charity. A loss-leader for followup
products? MAYBE I could swallow THAT, given my ignorance of the game
industry's economics, but somehow I doubt it. Give us credit for a
little intelligence, okay? It's OKAY to earn money. Honest!

>Unfortunately, the Rebellion itself became a spectator sport, too
>large in scope for player characters to interact with.

True, but if wild frontiers were ALL you wanted, why not just a new game,
or better yet the wonderful forces set in motion in HARD TIMES?

>     The background for TNE is set 70 years after the Rebellion (circa
>1190) in a time when interstellar society has completely collapsed.

This is wise, and a good nod to those with campaigns yet to finish.

>     This element of the background was deliberate so that players do
>not have to be familiar with the Imperium setting.  There is a lot to
>know, which is probably a large part of TRAVELLER's appeal to many
>HIWGers.  But GDW cannot afford to let TRAVELLER become a game for
>elite and dedicated players.  New players are intimidated by the
>volume of information that exists, which is impeding TRAVELLER's
>growth.  So, TNE will render most of that information unknown and
>unnecessary without invalidating the previous literature.

Also a wise marketing move; I won't argue with it at all.

>     Established players will undoubtedly look back at classic
>TRAVELLER with a sense of nostalgia

Of course we do. THOSE rules WORKED. (Pretty much, anyway.)

>     TNE will come as two books.  The first will have only the rules.
>The second will contain the Imperium background.  The aim is to give
>players the option to adopt other science fiction universes for their
>campaigns.  GDW is even seriously considering a 2300 AD Sourcebook,
>restoring support for 2300 AD as a subset of TRAVELLER.

Interesting. I don't know how the 2300AD purists would swallow it, but
it'd be better than nothing, one would hope. I also like the idea of
sourcebooks for the Ziru Sirka, the Ramshackle Empire, and maybe (hell,
I'd write THIS one MYSELF!) the Third Imperium in the Sixth Century:
Expanding to reabsorb the Terran worlds, and developing the ideas that
we all take for granted (Jump-4? WOW!). Not to mention a sourcebook for
the Imperium in 1120 or so, as Strephon deals with Dulinor's failed
assassination attempt, the Naval conspiracies that surfaced in the
Fifth War, and the politicking of the Archdukes that he recently
reappointed....

>     TNE will definitely not be an outgrowth of MT.  Although MT was
>an award winning game design

What award? Most Errata in One Volume Of Rules? Dumbest Ship Combat System?
Worst Pseudoscience?

>particular, GDW will completely revise the ship design system to make
>it easier.  Digest Group made a special effort to assure that classic
>ships were convertible to MT.  GDW, however, will not do this so as to
>not risk compromising the new system.

All I can say is, it had better be an improvement. We've had compatibility
without convenvience, and now you're taking compatibility away....

>     Three versions of faster-than-light drives will be presented in
>the rules, jump drive (TRAVELLER), stutterwarp (2300 AD), and star
>gates (resembling Pournelle's MOTE IN GOD'S EYE universe).

I'm actually looking forward to this, being one of the few people out
here who actually understands why the distance limit for stutterwarp was
set to the particular number of ly that it was. I've had star gates as
Ancient artifacts in my Trav games for over thirteen years, and a system
for running a lower-tech version in place for nearly eight. I'd LOVE
to get Traveller working with some of those ideas.

>     The ship combat system might include a vector combat system, like
>what appeared in GDW's MAYDAY. However, GDW hopes to simplify bringing
>distant ships to tactical range without burdening players with vector
>mechanics just to get their ships to close.  A vector combat system
>will probably not appear if GDW uses instead the stutterwarp combat
>system (see later).

I'd recommend it anyway. A simple diagram explanation as given in MAYDAY
would help a lot, and it makes a lot of physical sense. On the other
hand, I'd recommend laminated play boards with markers rather than the
old system of past, present and future position counters....

>     The world generation system will remain as it is with one minor
>exception.  The stars a system will be a factor of the kind of main
>world generated.  Its too difficult rationalizing the large number of
>hospitable worlds circling stars of types unlikely to have anything
>but dead planets.  So, most of the star types in the sector data lists
>will change (where stellar data exists at all).

Again, not a major hassle. Improves science, little damage to rules.

>     Doing this, however, will skew the stellar population
>unnaturally.  Most real stars are red dwarfs, whereas they will be
>uncommon in TRAVELLER. However, a misconception crept into star charts
>that GDW might decide to throw back out.  Charts were only meant as
>navigation aids.  They originally did not represent the actual
>positions of the star systems nor all of the star systems present.

BZZZZT! Caught you here, people! This is a great idea, and very handy--
well worth reviving, by allowing a "less dense" universe. BUT! The whole
point of stutterwarp is that every star must be used as a stepping stone,
even if it's worthless. If stutterwarp was a retcon, and in use all over
the Imperium before the Short Nap, then there will exist large clouds of
well-known space in addition to the simple maps. Be careful!

>     Seventy years after the Rebellion, struggling pocket empires will
>be far and few between.  The Long Night was supposed to be desolate,
>but too many exceptions, such as Ral Ranta in the Hinterworlds, were
>written back in.  GDW plans to be very restrained in the number and
>size of pocket empires that exist by this time.

Smart move. (Though the Ral Ranta, being in the Hinterworlds, didn't
really hurt anything.)

>     The New Era will be an age of discovery. Explorers (Star Vikings)
>from the pocket empires will go out and recontact worlds in a fashion
>loosely resembling what we see in STAR TREK.  Starships are still
>especially rare and valuable during this time.  Boarding action will
>prevail in space combat so as to capture, not destroy, the hardware.

This implies a major paradigm shift in the game, and one that I feel
others may have strong objections to. Expect long, drawn out treatises
from people with extensive economic backgrounds, demonstrating how that
is highly unlikely in any society capable of building ships at all.
But I won't be one of them-- in fact, I rather like the idea. One part
of TRAVELLER I never liked was that starships were neither appropriately
rare and costly nor appropriately cheap and easy to find.

And to Bertil, for his comment on the Metlay System of Space Combat:
THHPHHHBBBT!

|->

>     Deneb survives, thanks in part to an impassioned appeal by Chuck
>Kallenbach (Paranoia Press; HIWG).  Vargr activity across the Corridor
>slowed the migration of the Virus long enough to give Norris time to
>prepare and counter it.  As a result, the Empire of Deneb remains a
>powerful interstellar state even in the New Era.

This is a soft spot in my heart, and I'm damn grateful for it. But I'd
dearly love to know how they were able to actually stop the Virus....

>     There is much to say about the Virus, but I will gloss over most
>of the details and leave them to CHALLENGE 64.  Keep in mind that the
>Virus is only a device that gets us to the New Era. The New Era is set
>in stone, and refinements to the Virus and history must give us that
>result.

That still doesn't remove the fact that the device used to get there
should make sense. I won't forgive an idiotic idea to get from Point A
to Point B. But I haven't rendered a decision on the wisdom of this
one, yet....

>     The silicon lifeforms of Cymbeline (see ADVENTURE 13 - SIGNAL GK)

A-HA! NOW things begin to get very interesting! This is not a computer
virus at all, this is a malevolent lifeform with the ability to self-
reproduce given suitable raw materials and adapt itself to a number of
different environments. THIS I can live with, with only one small
problem: the people at GDW seem to have forgotten that the Cymbeline
chips (called the Cmybiotica in my game, where they were and are a potent
plot thread) were only discovered and isolated in the early 1100s, and
a lot of their research was only preliminary before the Solomani bombed
Cymbeline into a cinder. I find it VERY difficult to believe that a
life form with dubious loyalty would, or could, be incorporated into
every starship in the Imperium and surrounds, particularly while Hard
Times were tearing down trade bridges rather than building them up.

>     As you can see, the Virus offers an endless number of exciting
>science fiction plots.

I still wouldn't call this a virus, and the only way to put it in
place would be to retcon SIGNAL GK out of existence or push the events
therein at least one century earlier, preferably more. A minor point--
this sort of explanation actually sits better with me than any
computer-virus thing hinted at before. After all, the Cymbiotica are
not only sentient, they are also self-replicating and self-mobile!

>STAR VIKINGS

Dumb name. Sorry, guys, but you've gotta do better than this. The rest
of it is great, though; a typical Manipulation, just on a grander scale.

>     The 'long ship' is a class of starship apparently unique to the
>Star Vikings.  This is an unstreamlined ship with a good jump range,
>but minimal or possibly no maneuver drive.  It carries rider ships
>which are actually used to contact worlds.

The Alcyon? Nah.....|->

>     TRAVELLER is not a dark future game and TNE will not be either.
>Dave was very clear about his distaste for "wallowing" in decay and
>ruin, so TRAVELLER will keep its space opera cum hard science fiction
>feel.  TNE will focus on exploration and expansion, looking toward a
>positive future and not a negative one.  Even though TNE will include
>things like cybernetic body parts, these will not be presented in a
>way to suggest a cyberpunk genre.

Well, thank the Great Pack for that. I was wondering for a while there.
This is perhaps the boldest move on GDW's part yet, since everyone in
the universe seems to be concentrating on nihilism and angst-ridden
violence to sell product now. I wish them well.

>     GDW will return to being vague about technology.  From the
>feedback they received, STARSHIP OPERATOR'S MANUAL explained too much,
>so things like the lanthanum grid for jump drives will not be carried
>over.

Wise move. But that's still not going to save you if what you DO talk
about is bad science. Remember, the big argument about thruster plates
came from a reading of the ship design rules, not the tech description.

>     The enormous amount of errata for MT was mentioned twice during
>the seminars.  The GDW panel assured the audience that there will
>inevitably be some errata, but it will not happen again in the same volume.

Lordy, I hope not.

>     GDW is seriously considering including TWO faster-than-light star
>drives in the Imperial setting, traditional jump drive and stutterwarp
>from 2300 AD.  Frank Chadwick and Lester Smith favor this because
>stutterwarp makes for a very interesting space combat system.

Star gates. Don't forget star gates! |->

>     This will be the only real discontinuity between MT and TNE that
>GDW will consider.  If used, TNE will assume that stutterwarp existed
>and was actively employed through all the Imperiums despite lack of
>mention in MT and classic TRAVELLER.

Honk BZZZZT! Research the retcons this will require.

>     Although GDW is writing TNE in-house, they still need outside
>writers, particular for CHALLENGE.  The CHALLENGE adventures will help
>give players a feel for the new game.  A little more room is available
>in CHALLENGE, thanks to GDW's new magazine.  JOURNEYS, as its called,
>will support multigenre games and pull over some things that occupied
>space in CHALLENGE.

Sign me up, people. Get me a set of guidelines and turn me loose.

(And invest in some real artists, for heaven's sake! Use Dave Dietrick,
Liz Danforth, Mike Vilardi, and people of that calibre exclusively--
go to the level of Crompton only in a pinch, and punt anyone less
talented than that. Good art sells games, and bad art keeps them from
being sold.)

- --
dr. michael metlay          \ TEAM-METLAYISM OF THE WEEK (from N. Rothwell):
atomic city                  \ "Neeed." As in, "I know I have a huge rig of
                              \ twenty synths and a computer I don't know how
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu \ to use yet, but, well, I Neeed a K2000...."


------------------------------

Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4617
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 23:20:25 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)

Dr. Metlay [], replying to Mike Mikesh []> (and trimmed -- don't panic guys)
===============================================================================
[]>     GDW admits they did not support MEGATRAVELLER (MT) adequately.

No kidding.  I always felt Trav should have stayed with GDW rather then
farming it out to DGP.

[]>     TNE will come as two books.  The first will have only the rules.
[]>The second will contain the Imperium background.  The aim is to give
[]>players the option to adopt other science fiction universes for their
[]>campaigns.  GDW is even seriously considering a 2300 AD Sourcebook,
[]>restoring support for 2300 AD as a subset of TRAVELLER.
[]
[]Interesting. I don't know how the 2300AD purists would swallow it, but

Well, I liked the 2300ad background, mostly because the tech seemed a little
easier to swallow then some of the classic Trav stuff.

[]>     Three versions of faster-than-light drives will be presented in
[]>the rules, jump drive (TRAVELLER), stutterwarp (2300 AD), and star
[]>gates (resembling Pournelle's MOTE IN GOD'S EYE universe).

Personally, I find the "steady power" system more believeable then the
"build up one humongous charge" system.  Besides, with the stutterwarp, or
with the stargates/tramlines/Alderson points, you get, *gasp* travel routes
like in ol' suppliment 3, except that EVERYONE has to use them, not just poor
shmoes with Jump-2 or less.  Makes the Spinward main mean something.

[]I've had star gates as
[]Ancient artifacts in my Trav games for over thirteen years,

I actually had a few, A-la "Buck Rodgers" in hos old Trav game. Ancients stuff.

[]>A vector combat system
[]>will probably not appear if GDW uses instead the stutterwarp combat
[]>system (see later).

A delta-V system is more realistic, but sometimes a reall pain, especially at high velocities.

[]>     The world generation system will remain as it is with one minor
[]>exception.  The stars a system will be a factor of the kind of main
[]>world generated.  Its too difficult rationalizing the large number of
[]>hospitable worlds circling stars of types unlikely to have anything

So?  So what if most systems are garbage, with mining outposts at best on
them?  This isn't "Lost in Space" or "Star Trek", where every world's
habitable.  Personally, I want Science fiction in my Trav, not Science Fantasy.

And for god sake, tie population to world quality!  If a system is garbage and
not worth mining, keep it empty of people.  Perhaps a monitor station at best.

[]>     The New Era will be an age of discovery. Explorers (Star Vikings)
[]>from the pocket empires will go out and recontact worlds in a fashion
[]>loosely resembling what we see in STAR TREK.

Actually, it sounds more like the "Stainless Steel Rat" universe, with the
emerging government trying to contact the worlds lost in the big crash.

[]>     Deneb survives, thanks in part to an impassioned appeal by Chuck
[]>Kallenbach (Paranoia Press; HIWG).  Vargr activity across the Corridor

If we keep the Imperial background, then I'm glad Deneb is staying.  However,
switching to stutterwarp will seriously retcon the marches.

[]>STAR VIKINGS
[]Dumb name. Sorry, guys, but you've gotta do better than this. The rest
[]of it is great, though; a typical Manipulation, just on a grander scale.

I agree.  That name is just too cheesy.

[]>     The 'long ship' is a class of starship apparently unique to the
[]>Star Vikings.

Again, taking the anology too far.  Do their Vacc suit helmets have horns
on them as well?  And the engineer's name is always Sven. :)

If you have to use a term, it can be "barbarian states" or Pirates, or Reavers
or something.  Vikings, as in Norse "Yo, Thor!" types is at best a Solomani
Term, if it still exists

[]>     TRAVELLER is not a dark future game and TNE will not be either.

Good.  Trav wasn't, and TNE shouldn't be.  However, the idea of the Lone
peice of the Imperium, adrift with a sea of barbarian to Core, rim and
trailing (Assume the Zho's just sit there -- they are bigger now), sounds good.
You want "stability", stay in marches or Deneb.  Aye, but the big bucks and
high risks lie outside the borders of the "civilized" worlds.

[]>     GDW will return to being vague about technology.  From the
[]
[]Wise move. But that's still not going to save you if what you DO talk
[]about is bad science.

Thinking back to my old ref, back in '80, he didn't give too much worrk about
tech strangities, as long as it was consistant.  If the science is strange,
fine, as long as it fits with everything else.  The plates were a crock
because they were not consistant with newtonian physics.  But you can fudge
stutterwarp or jump physics, as long as you are consistant within that frame.

[]>     GDW is seriously considering including TWO faster-than-light star
[]>drives in the Imperial setting, traditional jump drive and stutterwarp
[]>from 2300 AD.  Frank Chadwick and Lester Smith favor this because
[]>stutterwarp makes for a very interesting space combat system.

I dunno.  I can live with umpteen different ways to shuttle around a system,
be it orion systems, Fusion torches or Ion rockets, but I think the means to
pierce the 'c' boundry should have a single basic form, with other systems
being variants of that.  Look at normal maneuver drives -- Be it Fusion, Ion
or Nuke bomb, it's all "action<->reaction".  It's that same idea, just with
variant ways of doing it.  The same should be with the star travel.
(Actually, musing along the lines of stutterwarp, it sounds a lot like
Saberhagen's C-Plus drive)

So while race A uses a system of stutterwarp that is very efficient, but
has a greatly reduced range before dischcharge (Very fast ships, but their
range is pretty poor, limiting their "known space"), while Race C has the
"Ion drive" of stutterwarps (Shit poor speed, but a very good range before
needing a discharge, resulting in a flung out empire with poor response times
to external threat), you get your "drive" differences.

[](And invest in some real artists, for heaven's sake! Use Dave Dietrick,
[]Liz Danforth, Mike Vilardi, and people of that calibre exclusively--
[]go to the level of Crompton only in a pinch, and punt anyone less
[]talented than that. Good art sells games, and bad art keeps them from
[]being sold.)

Agreed.  Cheesy art is a real turn off.

===============================================================================
[]  /     \    Postscript or BIOS,              Burton Choinski, QA Engineer []
[] ((     ))  we'll spark new life                       burt@vino.ptltd.com []
[] ( \   / )  into your system and                                           []
[]  ( \^/ )        make it fly!                                              []
[]   (( ))                                                                   []
[]    )^(   Phoenix Technologies, Ltd.  Cambridge, MA.                       []
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4618
Date: 09 Sep 92 23:50:33 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: My TNE ramblings...

I see I should have been paying more attention to the TML recently.  My
mistake.

<my comments on TNE>

>Three versions of faster-than-light drives will be presented in the
>rules, jump drive (TRAVELLER), stutterwarp (2300 AD), and star gates
>(resembling Pournelle's MOTE IN GOD'S EYE universe).

I truly hope that they will not insist that the Traveller universe has
always had all three of these...


>The New Era will be an age of discovery. Explorers (Star Vikings) from
>the pocket empires will go out and recontact worlds in a fashion loosely
>resembling what we see in STAR TREK.  Starships are still especially
>rare and valuable during this time.  Boarding action will prevail in
>space combat so as to capture, not destroy, the hardware.

Boarding actions are a really neat trick unless you have blown away
the maneuver drives in advance.  But if that is the way you want it...

And, as Metlay said, there will be massive economic treatises showing why
it ain't gonna be that way.  I'll probably write about half of them.  But
I agree that keeping ships rare is a good thing.  Though how you intend to
let PCs get their hands on one if they are that valuable is something I
am really curious about.


>     As you can see, the Virus offers an endless number of exciting
>science fiction plots.

Actually, I can't see ANY science fiction plots made possible by the virus.
It looks more like background scenery to me.  Most likely, the permutations
possible will be beaten to death within six months of the game's release,
and ignored thereafter.  Who's willing to bet on whether the first TNE
adventure in Challenge will be a "virus" adventure?


>     The 'long ship' is a class of starship apparently unique to the
>Star Vikings.  This is an unstreamlined ship with a good jump range,
>but minimal or possibly no maneuver drive.  It carries rider ships
>which are actually used to contact worlds.

So, why is it unique?  Are we defining anyone who uses it as "star vikings"?
Or is it a stupid enough design that sensible people don't want to use it?

And they're right, "Star Viking" is a stupid name. It was stupid when Piper
used the original ("Space Viking"), and it hasn't improved with age.  The
concept is interesting, the name is terrible...


>     GDW will return to being vague about technology.  From the
>feedback they received, STARSHIP OPERATOR'S MANUAL explained too much,
>so things like the lanthanum grid for jump drives will not be carried
>over.

Bravo!  Defining the technology of the Imperium did more to destroy my
suspension of disbelief than anything else, including "hard times".


>     GDW is seriously considering including TWO faster-than-light star
>drives in the Imperial setting, traditional jump drive and stutterwarp
>from 2300 AD.  Frank Chadwick and Lester Smith favor this because
>stutterwarp makes for a very interesting space combat system.

DON'T DO THIS!!!  The stutterwarp changes the whole picture of ship combat
SO MUCH that reconciling the original Imperium to TNE will be just about
impossible.  Keep in mind that a ship without a stutterwarp has a movement
of ZERO in combat with any ship WITH a stutterwarp.


>Although GDW is writing TNE in-house, they still need outside writers,
>particular for CHALLENGE.  The CHALLENGE adventures will help give
>players a feel for the new game.  A little more room is available in
>CHALLENGE, thanks to GDW's new magazine.

If GDW has had a hard time getting good articles for Challenge, why do they
believe that they can now fill two magazines?  And why do they assume that
we will all be waiting eagerly to fill the pages of Challenge, if we haven't
before?

If Challenge decides to change its payment policies to something more
realistic, I'll send the a submission or ten also...

			---Steve Higginbotham

	***the Vilani Imperial Navy - ten thousand years of tradition,
									   unspoiled by progress***


------------------------------
Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4619
Subject: Re: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thoughts.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 19:40:05 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>


Mike Metlay writes all kinds of interesting comments...
[The best of which I've deleted so I can subtly alter their
 meaning thus corrupting what he really said. ]


>>     TNE will definitely not be an outgrowth of MT.  Although MT was
>>an award winning game design

>What award? Most Errata in One Volume Of Rules? Dumbest Ship Combat System?
>Worst Pseudoscience?

(-;


[about the domain...]
>This is a soft spot in my heart, and I'm damn grateful for it. But I'd
>dearly love to know how they were able to actually stop the Virus....

My first reaction to reading that bit of the original posting was HOW?
After some more thought, I have come up with some typically draconian
solutions.

Quite simple really.  If they are able to destroy planets, they could
have created a zone of no passage by sterilising a few systems in corridor.
[ The Darrian star trigger might be of great assistance here ].  Another
possibility is placing large interdiction fleets at stragetic locations
(again in corridor sector) that have orders to not let anything past.
The fleets would have to have no transponders of any kind or they would
become infected.

A less nasty solution might involve the creation of a preditor-preditor
type chip.  Make it a serendipitous creation to explains why only the
domain survived.  Oops, the Zhondani also survive it obviously they must
be using totally different computers.

Being a little faceious now: wouldn't the 'virus' spread as fast as ships
moved?  Wouldn't this mean that it spread as fast as communication speed?
Which kind of implies that once you know the virus exists it is too late.

I think that 'plague' is a better term than 'virus'.


Lets just hope that GDW don't mash our beloved universe too much in
the transition to the new.






        						Pauli
PS: Can anybody come up with reasons why jump drives would be
used in preference to stutter-warp.

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?


------------------------------

Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4620
Date:    Thu, 10 Sep 1992 9:32:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: BARANSKI@VEAMF1.NUSC.NAVY.MIL
Subject: TNE...

Several coments on TNE...

Anyone noticed the increased similarity between Battletech and TNE? 'Ships are
rare antiques, and boarding actions are common, and all that...'  'An empire
dependant on past science...' etc...

Thank God, no BattleMechs...

Double that, that cyborgs will be few and far between, no teen-angst cyberpunk,
as Metlay puts it for me thank you...

Traveller in the past, has had features unique to itself, and has also let
several gaming fads slip by without jumping on the bandwagon, and becoming yet-
another-generic-battlemech-cyborg-netrunner-psyionic-fantasy-robot game for
teenagers.  It's made minimal inclusions of each to accomidate fanatics, yet
Traveller has more of less stayed the same, and not let itself be jerked around
by 'new technology'.

Traveller has been a game apart, and a standard.  But it has aged quite a bit,
and it has been jerked around quite a bit by several completely different rules
systems, and about a dozen different 'official' publishers which were later
blacklisted and their material contradicted.

I like generic rules systems that can be applied consistantly to any type of
campaign or scenario.  But I also want Traveller to continue to have it's
unique flavor.

On Starships...

As with all equipment design, *real* terminology should be used, and it should
be consistant...  You should be able to tell if you can but a framistat in your
fighter, and why, and be able to design a fighter with a framistat if you want
to.  Be able to design ships with & without grav plates etc, and have there be
significant differences.  Have several different interplanetary and
interstellar drives for different cultures/races/empires. etc...

I don't like the 'fallen empire' atmosphere.  I prefer the 'expanding empire'
attitude.  But it's easier to move forward in time and crush the Imperium to
create frontiers then to move backwards to the point where the Imperium or some
subset of it had genuine frontiers...

Enough for now...

Jim Baranski

------------------------------

Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4621
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:00:56 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Scott & Wet Navy

[SCOTT KELLOGG]
    <Watercraft design> Oh, I forgot to mention that it wasn't seen till
after Terry's write-up was done and not by GDW, just other player's. In this
case, it was apparent that at least three people had been thinking along
the same lines at roughly the same time (I guess, I'm not to sure who
pre-dated who at this point, I saw Terry's last year, Herbert's this year
and never saw the other person's).

------------------------------

Bundle: 386
Archive-Message-Number: 4622
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: My TNE ramblings...
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 0:26:24 EDT

> >Three versions of faster-than-light drives will be presented in the
> >rules, jump drive (TRAVELLER), stutterwarp (2300 AD), and star gates
> >(resembling Pournelle's MOTE IN GOD'S EYE universe).
>
> I truly hope that they will not insist that the Traveller universe has
> always had all three of these...

no, I don't think that's how it'll be. As I understand it, there will
be one book on the Imperium, which will only have jump drive. The
various other method of FTL travel and other stuff is in a different
book, which intends to make playing Traveller without using Imperium
background very easily.

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 387  4623 11-Sep-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  TNE - Some thoughts << I hate the name.
 387  4624 11-Sep-1992 timothy k istia  Star Vikings and Stutterwarps << First
 387  4625 11-Sep-1992 Jeff Zeitlin     tml: what is is? <<   Would someone be
 387  4626 12-Sep-1992 MacGyver         Re: TNE - Some thoughts << > I hate the
 387  4627 13-Sep-1992 bryan borich     Some comments and well.... << [SCOTT KE
 387  4628 13-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  Jest fer fun:  Language Barriers |-> <<
 387  4629 13-Sep-1992 Steve Higginbot  Stutterwarp and Jump... << Bruce:
 387  4630 13-Sep-1992 Steve Higginbot  Frank Chadwick's latest... << Frank Cha
 387  4631 13-Sep-1992 "Carl Fago"      Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4627-4628 V44#18
 387  4632 13-Sep-1992 Roger Opperman   Plagiarism Accusation << >
 387  4633 14-Sep-1992                  Re: My TNE ramblings << > From: Steve H
 387  4634 14-Sep-1992                  Re:Re: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thou
 387  4635 14-Sep-1992                  Re: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thought

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4634
From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re:Re: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thoughts.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 14:38:40 MET DST

> From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
>
> Again, taking the anology too far.  Do their Vacc suit helmets have horns
> on them as well?  And the engineer's name is always Sven. :)

  Unfortunately I have a hard time disproving the existance of engineers named
Sven, especially since my grandfathers brother was one:)

  I can however totally disprove the existance of horns on viking helmets.
The horns are an invention by the same age that gave us the fat singing lady
wearing the above (and a breastplate).
  Although horned helmets existed in the time period before the vikings
(a few hundred years or so) they were not used 850 to 1200 and were not even
present except on some old (religious) statues(1).

  An accurate comparision to showing vikings with horns would be to show US
marines charging up a beach wearing full plate armour.

  Comparing the general behaviour of the star vikings and their namesakes,
there is less of a difference that what people might believe. The star vikings
*seem* however to have a less profit-at-any-cost orientation that the
originals: The vikings often worked on the "if they are strong, we trade and
if they are weak, we take", while the star vikings apparently reason "if they
don't want to trade, we hose down the seat of government with orbital
artillery, and ask them once more; repeat until we get a 'yes'".
  This might however be an artifact of knowing the whole story: We know that
the hivers are behind it to stabilize the frontier, while the star vikings
might think they do everything from a pure drive for profit.

  Comparisions to the Hanseatic League have been made, but IMHO the Hansa seems
to be a little on the bad side of the star vikings. They were basically a
German colonization operation out to totally monopolize the baltic trade and
install Hansa-loyal merchants as an major economic force in all the harbours of
the baltic sea.

- -bertil-
(1) And the horns on most of them was more of the 'deer' type than the usual
    'bullhorn' which led me once to speculate in a pre-viking celtic
    connection. This so incensed an (american:) asatru fundamentalist that
    he started to behave like the average tv-evangelist. Fundies are nofun:)
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4635
From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thoughts
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:16:09 MET DST

> From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
> Subject: The New Era: A Curmudgeon's Thoughts.
>
> >     Contrary to what some might believe, this is not a move just to
> >make more money with a new rules set.  While it is true that new rules
> >sell well, the initial sales of TNE will pay for itself and that's
> >all.  It takes a lot of effort and resources to put out a rules set.
> >Profit comes as a result of reorders, so for TNE to be profitable, it
> >must be good and its appeal must grow.
>
> Oh, give me a break here! I'm willing to spend money on products if
> they're GOOD products; please don't insult my intelligence by saying
> that you're not selling them to make money; you're either a liar or a
> fool.  I can't tolerate either. You're damn right that growth is vital
> to a game's longevity, but don't try to make us believe that the
> initial sale is an act of charity. A loss-leader for followup
> products? MAYBE I could swallow THAT, given my ignorance of the game
> industry's economics, but somehow I doubt it. Give us credit for a
> little intelligence, okay? It's OKAY to earn money. Honest!

  To formulate what Mike Mikesh said a little differently, GDW (Frank Chadwick,
I think, to be exact) said up front that one of the "why's" of TNE is that
Traveller as it stands (MegaTraveller) doesn't bring in enough revenue
and the little it does take in is shrinking due to loss of old players and
no regrowth.
  Furthermore they said that MegaTraveller has already accumulated so much
bad publicity (typos, no support, incomprehensible to neophytes etc) that it
is a lost cause, so the only solution is to scrap it and start over again.

> True, but if wild frontiers were ALL you wanted, why not just a new game,
> or better yet the wonderful forces set in motion in HARD TIMES?

  It might be that GDW noticed that what some people on TML said (that
Hard Times would either lead to a very short night on the order of a few
years or a long dark night on the hundreds of years scale, depending on what
assumptions one made) and decided that they still wanted a 70year night
for plot reasons and invented the mechanism to create one.

  If they had used Hard Times raw to achieve a 70year night, I would have
expected to see esseys here saying that the Hard Times mechanisms impossibly
could lead to a 70year long night:)

> What award? Most Errata in One Volume Of Rules? Dumbest Ship Combat System?
> Worst Pseudoscience?

  Frankly, Battlelords of the 23'rd century leads in all those areas, even the
errata one:)

> And to Bertil, for his comment on the Metlay System of Space Combat:
> THHPHHHBBBT!
>
> |->

  My first thought when 'boardings with bayonets to avoid harming the ships'
was mentioned was: "Hey! This is what Mike Metlay said they did in his campaign
long ago!" :)

  BTW: they did mention using a plasmagun in engineering as a Very Bad Thing
To Do :)^3

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4623
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 15:11:41 +1000
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TNE - Some thoughts


I hate the name.  TRAVELLER - NEW ERA sounds like the name for a source book,
not a set of rules.  How about calling the whole thing TRAVELLER and then
you can create a source book called TRAVELLER - NEW ERA and 2300AD and
TWILIGHT 2000 and DARK CONSPIRACY and 3rd IMPERIUM etc etc etc.

> Boarding actions are a really neat trick unless you have blown away
> the maneuver drives in advance.  But if that is the way you want it...

And all their weapons systems and the crew quarters and ... Doesn't sound
feasible unless you have something like (yuk) tractor/pressor beams.

> The fleets would have to have no transponders of any kind or they would
> become infected.

Why would a host of potentially hostile empires use the same circuitry to
identify ships.  You can have as many ship id systems as there are empires
and its still playable.

> Being a little faceious now: wouldn't the 'virus' spread as fast as ships
> moved?  Wouldn't this mean that it spread as fast as communication speed?
> Which kind of implies that once you know the virus exists it is too late.

Yeah, its real difficult to justify the effect.

> Can anybody come up with reasons why jump drives would be
> used in preference to stutter-warp.

Well for a start they don't kill you.  Also, JUMP-3+ drives give you better
range and speed.

> Anyone noticed the increased similarity between Battletech and TNE? 'Ships
> are rare antiques, and boarding actions are common, and all that...'  '
> An empire dependant on past science...' etc...

Not very believable.  If you had the rare vessels you wouldn't send them out
alone.  And if you only had one or two you would be using them for research
to be able to rebuild/repair them.

> Thank God, no BattleMechs.
>
> Double that, that cyborgs will be few and far between, no teen-angst
> cyberpunk, as Metlay puts it for me thank you...

You must be reading something I didn't receive.  Nobody said anything about
putting limits on TNE.  All they've said so far is that things have changed
and won't be a "dark future".  Space is big and there is room for all sorts
of societies and phobias.  Actually, I could never see why a MECH was better
than a man portable anti-mech weapon.  RoboTech shoots itself in the foot
with each new technology change that comes out (their all shrinking in size
while rising in attack/defence/speed power).  Similar for the BattleTech junk.

> Traveller in the past, has had features unique to itself, and has also let
> several gaming fads slip by without jumping on the bandwagon, and becoming
> yet-another-generic-battlemech-cyborg-netrunner-psyionic-fantasy-robot game
> for teenagers.

It's the y-a-g-b-c-n-p-f-r teenagers that GDW are probably hoping to snare.

> I like generic rules systems that can be applied consistantly to any type of
> campaign or scenario.  But I also want Traveller to continue to have it's
> unique flavor.

Fine.  Let GDW produce a generic rule book that defines all these technologies
and play rules.  Lets feed them our views and get it heading in a compatible
direction.  GDW can then create source book(s) for 2300AD, Twilight 2000,
Dark Conspiracy, IMPERIUM I, IMPERIUM II, TRAVELLER (IMPERIUM III), CYBERPUNK,
and for TRAVELLER - NEW ERA (IMPERIUM IV).  GDW are in it to make money and
this is where they will do it.  Its up to the GM to decide what's IN his/her
universe or which universe they're in.

> I don't like the 'fallen empire' atmosphere.  I prefer the 'expanding empire'
> attitude.  But it's easier to move forward in time and crush the Imperium to
> create frontiers then to move backwards to the point where the Imperium or
> some subset of it had genuine frontiers...

So buy the master rules set and the appropriate source book for where you want
to exist.

> If you have to use a term, it can be "barbarian states" or Pirates, or
> Reavers or something.  Vikings, as in Norse "Yo, Thor!" types is at best
> a Solomani Term, if it still exists

Yeah.  How about just plain "Raiders".  But if the HIVERs are using them to
restore some semblance of civilization to humanity then they should be called
"Crusaders" or something similarly uplifting even though everyone else hates
their guts and calls em pirates.

> Thinking back to my old ref, back in '80, he didn't give too much worrk about
> tech strangities, as long as it was consistant.  If the science is strange,
> fine, as long as it fits with everything else.  The plates were a crock
> because they were not consistant with newtonian physics.  But you can fudge
> stutterwarp or jump physics, as long as you are consistant within that frame.

Just because newtonian physics is the only one we currently have you shouldn't
jump to the assumption that it is complete.

> []>     GDW is seriously considering including TWO faster-than-light star
> []>drives in the Imperial setting, traditional jump drive and stutterwarp
> []>from 2300 AD.  Frank Chadwick and Lester Smith favor this because
> []>stutterwarp makes for a very interesting space combat system.
>
> I dunno.  I can live with umpteen different ways to shuttle around a system,
> be it orion systems, Fusion torches or Ion rockets, but I think the means to
> pierce the 'c' boundry should have a single basic form, with other systems
> being variants of that.  Look at normal maneuver drives -- Be it Fusion, Ion
> or Nuke bomb, it's all "action<->reaction".  It's that same idea, just with
> variant ways of doing it.  The same should be with the star travel.

Here's a possible technology path (Remember the time scale of the various
IMPERIUMs I thru III and the slow tech advancement relative to Earth in the
1800s thru to the 2300s):

TECH 8-9:   StutterWarp is discovered.
TECH 9-10:  JUMP Drive discovered as safe alternative to StutterWarp.
            StutterWarp still outperforms JUMP Drive.
TECH 11:    StutterWarp plateaus in usefulness.
            More and more travellers opting for safer JUMP Drive travel.
            StutterWarp and JUMP Drive not compatible on same ship.  Causes
            rapid buildup of StutterWarp radiation while in JUMP space [or
            something equally nasty].
TECH 13-14: JUMP Drive is new alternative and safe mode of travel.
            JUMP Drive "MIS-JUMPS" are identified as a potential problem.
            StutterWarp drive ships lose competitive edge and are phased out.
TECH 15-16: JUMP Drive has plateaued out but still the safest travel mode.
            "MIS-JUMPS" investigated and StarGate/Warp technology found.
            StarGates constructed but still need JUMP Drive to get to the
            two end points to build the gate in the first place.
TECH 17:    One way StarGates constructed, thus reducing need for JUMP Drive
            equiped vessels for exploration.
TECH 18-19: Mobile StarGates established allowing ships to generate own
            temporary StarGate field.

That could be the way the TRAVELLER - IMPERIUM star drive technology works
while other source books could have a slightly different technology
dependency.

There's nothing stopping all star drives being useful in a campaign universe.

I'm not real happy about the TECH levels but ALL tech levels could happen in
a 100 year period in a rapidly expanding civilization.

Bruce...        pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4624
From: timothy k istian soholt <xoanon@carina.unm.edu>
Subject: Star Vikings and Stutterwarps
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 11:10:58 MDT

First off, they've already got a great name for their explorers
built into the background. Back when I played TRAVELLER on a
fairly regular basis, the most popular character type was defi-
nitely the scout. The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service must
have a whole body of legend surrounding it. So why in Yaskoy-
dray's name wouldn't the next generation of explorers (and
players) want to cash in on the mystique of the famous explor-
ers of the Thousand Year Empire? They're not Star Vikings,
they're Scouts.

As for stutterwarp, why can't they have that be a recent inno-
vation in ftl drive technology, developed by the Imperium
just before the Short Nap -- or at least, entering into the
public domain about then. The only problem being, they'd need
to make a set of realistic star maps with the old j-drive
paths drawn onto them.

- -- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu), The Man With No .sig

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4625
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: 11 Sep 92 (19:20)
Subject: tml: what is is?


  Would someone be so kind as to tell me about this mailing list?

  I am a Mega/Traveller player from 10 years ago, and one of my main
  complaints is that NOBODY ELSE SEEMS TO PLAY, and THERE IS NO
  MATERIAL.  Is this list intended to address these issues?  If so,
  PLEASE ENTER MY NAME IN SUBSCRIPTION!

  Thanks.

  J/
  jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com

  Anything I say in this or any communication to this or any medium
  is strictly my own non-authoritative opinion, unless otherwise
  explicitly noted.  Except for myself, or where explicitly noted
  otherwise, I do not speak for any individual or organization.

 * OLX 2.2 * Ever notice the best taglines are someone else's?
- --
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4626
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: TNE - Some thoughts
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 0:02:06 EDT

> I hate the name.  TRAVELLER - NEW ERA sounds like the name for a source book,
> not a set of rules.  How about calling the whole thing TRAVELLER and then
> you can create a source book called TRAVELLER - NEW ERA and 2300AD and
> TWILIGHT 2000 and DARK CONSPIRACY and 3rd IMPERIUM etc etc etc.

I think the set is called Traveller. New Era being a distinction, but
the game itself is still called Traveller.


------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4627
Date: 13 Sep 92 13:29:50 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Some comments and well....

[SCOTT KELLOGG]
    <Watercraft design> Oh, I forgot to mention that it wasn't seen till
after Terry's write-up was done and not by GDW, just other player's. In this
case, it was apparent that at least three people had been thinking along
the same lines at roughly the same time (I guess, I'm not to sure who
pre-dated who at this point, I saw Terry's last year, Herbert's this year
and never saw the other person's).



Item    8231778                 92/09/11        01:41
From:   GDW.SUPPORT                     Loren K. Wiseman
To:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
Sub: TML

 Bryan:
     Pleasepost the following items to the TML:

  Bruce (pihlab @ hhcs.gov.au):
 > I've just seen a copy of GDW's MYTHUS by Gary Gygax and was
  > wondering if "the New Era" was going to come out under this
 > new system (I hope not)?
 No. _Traveller: The New Era_ will use a variant of GDW's "house
 Role-Playing System," currently driving _Twilight: 2000_,
 _Dark Conspiracy_, and _Cadillacs and Dinosaurs_, although with some
 modifications to adapt it to SF adventure. At the Gen-Con Traveller
 seminars, one person walked out when hearing this news, but the rest
 of the group stayed and seemed pleased (many were overtly enthusiastic)
 with our plans).

 PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>:
 > Are there any biologists out there?

 I was a Biology minor back in the stone age (when God was a teenager,
 and I was an undergrad), and I am part of the three-man design team
 that came up with the K'kree and the Hivers (their original incarnations,
 not what DGP wrote about them later). One of the team is now taking a
 PhD in Paleontology at Uni Chi (he is also responsible for the various
 animal classifications in the original Traveller...Grazer, etc.). The
 other writes novels for a living. I also did a lot of the early Bestiaries
 in JTAS, and biology (primarily comparative zoology) is still a minor
 interest of mine. Count mine as another vote for more discussion of
 alien life forms...

 ( The above are from Loren Wiseman)


 To: Scott Kellogg
 From: Frank Chadwick
 Sub: Plagiarism Accusation

 I read your recent post on this network. Since it was a public posting,
 I am responding as an open letter. Everything you say about GDW is
 wrong, and if you ever again say that you, or anyone else, was "screwed
 by GDW," you better be ready to prove it in court, Mister. I am through
 tolerating this sort of irresponsible, dishonest bashing of our
 company's reputation in public.

 The original work on the virus was begun by me well over two years
 ago, was discussed in its early stages with the people from Digest
 Group, and was announced publicly in a seminar at GenCon '91.
 These things are matters of public record.

 The people at GDW who are responsible for all of the on-going creative
 work on Traveller The New Era are myself, Dave Nilsen, Loren Wiseman, and
 Lester Smith. None of us have ever read your story, seen your ship design,
 or know much of anything about you. Loren Wiseman was the only one of us
 who had even heard of you, and that was only because Loren's job includes
 reading the TML conversations, in which I am told you participate quite
 often.

 Chuck Gannon is not a member of the GDW staff. Showing something to
 him does not constitute showing it to GDW. Chuck's position vis-a-vis GDW
 has been that of an outside artist. There was a recent problem with
 Rob Dean not being properly credited in a product submitted by Chuck
 Gannon, but this was the result of some confused communications, not an
 attempt to steal Rob's work. I don't believe that Rob feels "screwed" by
 GDW, but you should ask him yourself. And before you simply switch
 your attack and claim that he was deliberately "screwed" by Chuck, I
 would think twice. I have decided not to take action this time on what
 clearly constitutes a libel. Chuck may not be inclined to be so generous.

 Finally, Traveller, the Imperium, and its history, are the creation of
 GDW, and are our intellectual property. Do you really think that you
 can unilaterally take over part of this intellectual creation by
 writing an unsolicited story, sending it to someone, even one of us at
 GDW, and then cry THIEF! if anything remotely similar appear in the
 future? You cannot, and the attempt to do so makes YOU the attempted thief.
 Traveller, and its future history, are ours. Stop trying to steal them.

          Frank Chadwick
             President, GDW, Inc.
=END=

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4628
Date:    Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:23:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: Jest fer fun:  Language Barriers |->

Jest fer fun...  An excerpt from:
The Journal Entries of Dr. Sir Christopher Foxx, And Related Tales.
- --
Scott 2G Kellogg
- --
Journal Entry 065 / 1119 [ Language Barriers ]

     I leaned back in my chair and threw my legs carelessly up on
the table.  The familiar timorous howl of the jumpdrive was audible
through the inferior sound proofing of the scoutship's cramped
lounge as we left the Vargr Extents for the Imperium.

     Thorknorrz walked in a moment later, the short vargr engineer
sat down and yawned and stretched tremendously, fur rippling over
the steel bands of his muscles.

     Veronica climbed down from the turret to join us a moment
later.  I admired her well formed thighs as she came down.  Firm.
Nice...

     "Those customs boats are always a pain." she complained.  "I'm
glad you guys speak gveg."

     "Well, you gotta be careful with the languages." agreed
Thorknorrz, "But once you can make yourself understood, you're ok."

     I corrected Thorknorrz. "*IF* you can make yourself
understood.  There have been a great many disasters spawned by just
a few mis-spoken words."

     "Yeah, yeah." Veronica rolled her eyes.  "Come on, Chris, just
a few words?  If you can't speak the language, how can you say
enough to really screw it up?  I just don't buy it."

     "Oh, believe me." I cautioned her, "One of the biggest
disasters I've seen was just because of one mixed up *syllable*!"

     "Yeah, right."

     I took a deep breath and thought back, the details were there,
but it was a stretch to bring them back up.  I pulled out a wine
bottle from the table's fridge and some glasses from the cabinet.
"This was *years* ago:  back when I was in high school in Glisten.
I was only sixteen.  I had only been learning gveg for a few
months, and the only phrase I knew with any confidence was
'Gvedreng ver galgalrrik?'"

     Thorknorrz snorted and chuckled his amusement as I poured
three glasses.  Veronica looked confused, so Thorknorrz translated.
"Do you speak galanglic?"

     I nodded.  "Exactly.  Now, my gveg teacher, Mr. Babbit wanted
us to try out our gveg as much as possible.  So, during our
vacation, he arranged for passage over to Brrelin:  an asteroid in
the Glisten Belt which was entirely vargr.  Of course, most of them
speak galanglic, so I felt I couldn't get into *too* much trouble.
There were other students going:  one of the fourth year gveg
students, Rick.  He was almost fluent.  Anne was going,  she was
decent in gveg.  But there were three of us who spoke little or
none at all."

     "So there were five of us.  Rick and I were the only guys, the
three girls:  Anne, Christine, and... oh yes...  Renee.  Yeah,
that's it.  And, of course, Mr. Babbit.  The girls were some of the
cutest in our school so of course I *had* to go."

     Thorknorrz grinned.  His tail wagging slightly.

     Veronica ignored him.

     I took a sip of wine.  "The trip over was fairly uneventful.
We hopped a shuttle over to Brrelin.  Took quite a while.  There
was only one memorable incident on the flight."

     I paused for a breath as Thorknorrz and Veronica waited for
the other shoe to drop.  "You see, Anne always managed to confuse
'Voo' and 'Vrere'.  That is:  Where and Who.  So the flight
attendant was rather confused when Anne asked her, 'Vrere gver shir
gvologahn?'"

     Thorknorrz smiled.

     Veronica shrugged.

     Thorknorrz translated, "Who are the toilets?"

     Veronica just rolled her eyes.

     I continued, "Well, as I said, it was a long flight, and we
all arrived over there pretty tired.  So we got out of the
spaceport and headed over to our hotel.  We weren't staying at the
TAS hostel, because we wanted in on the local culture.  But, Mr.
Babbit had picked a decent hotel right on the main street in
Brrelin.  I forget the name of the hotel, but we were right on
Grroatfurstenbar.  Or the 'Groatbar' as the Brreliners called it.
But by the time we got there, the Groatbaren were out on the
streets."

     Thorknorrz was barking his laughter, so I had to explain it to
Veronica this time:  "Groatbar is the street's nickname.  The local
prostitutes are known as the Groatbaren:  Which translates as
'Groat ladies'."

     Veronica's eyes rolled.

     I shrugged and continued, "Well, ol' Babbit was out of it.  He
was asleep on his feet, but of course a bunch of teenagers out in
a strange place with lots of new things around weren't exactly
ready to quiet down yet.  So, when Babbit collapsed in his room,
Rick went out to secure some refreshments."

     I held up my wine glass to demonstrate what refreshments I had
in mind.  Veronica grinned.

     "Unfortunately, he bought the most *awful* wine you've ever
tasted.  One sip, and I didn't want any part of it.  Besides,
someone had to stay alert.  So Rick, Anne, Christine and Renee
proceeded to *drink* that turpentine and got themselves fairly
merry."

     I paused for a moment to refresh Thorknorrz and Veronica's
glasses.  "So there I was, the only sober one in a room full of
drunken teenagers.  Rick was plastered, slurring every second word.
But the girls weren't in such bad shape...  Except..."

     Veronica looked suspicious.  "Except?"

     I paused for thought.  "Well...  Nothing really...  They
decided to wave at the passers by on the street...  Nothing wrong
with that...  Except...  Well, the Groatbaren were selling their
wares right around our hotel.  There was quite a crowd.  I began to
wonder if someone might get the wrong idea.  I mean, after all,
here *I* am with the welfare of three teenage girls in my hands,
and I had better look out for them, right?"

     Veronica nodded.  It seemed reasonable.

     "But," I continued, "I didn't know enough gveg to explain to
anyone that this was all in innocence.  What to do?  I was getting
worried.  A crowd was starting to gather."

     Thorknorrz was intrigued.  His ears focussed completely on me.

     I drew a deep breath.  "So, at first I tried to just persuade
the girls not to sit in the window, but they were too drunk to want
to listen to me...  I was getting desperate.  Rick was useless, I
thought and thought and thought."

     I sipped again from my glass and made a show of having a dry
throat.

     Veronica was growing impatient.  "Well, what happened?"

     "Well, I thought for a while, and decided that I had no
alternative except to try to explain.  All I would need would be
just *one* word.  I'd tell the crowd that the girls were just
crazy...  Not... Groatbaren.  So, I went over to Rick."

     "Rick!  Wake up!  What's the gveg word for crazy?"

     "Well, Rick was pretty dead to communication so it took a
while to squeeze it out of him, but he finally told me 'Gverrut'
for which the plural was 'Gverruten' I needed the plural for the
three girls, obviously!"

     Thorknorrz nodded.

     I beamed.  "So, armed with this new word I went triumphantly
over to the window and announced to all Brrelin that these three
beautiful teenage girls were Gvekauften!"

     Thorknorrz jaw hit the floor.  He was paralyzed a moment with
disbelief before he doubled over convulsing with his earsplitting
vargr laughter. "HARF!  HARF!  HARF!  HARF!"

     Veronica just stared at us both.

     "A riot broke out!" I continued, further reducing Thorknorrz
to a helpless pile of giggling fur, "I pulled the girls inside and
locked all the doors and windows.  It wasn't long before the police
arrived to quiet things down.  Fortunately, *they* spoke galanglic,
but they could barely believe that I had made such an awful
mistake."

     Veronica was steamed.  She just shook her head.

     Finally, Thorknorrz calmed down enough to explain it between
the splutters of his giggles.  "He tried to say 'Ver baret ged
gverruten.':  'The girls are crazy'  But he said 'Ver baret get
*gveKAUFten*'!:  'The girls are *FOR SALE*!"

- --
"Language Barriers" |->

Author's note:  For the disbelievers out there, I suggest you look
up the words in German.
Crazy:    Veruchten
For Sale: Verkaufen
And yes, it is mostly true, but it was Berlin on Kurfurstendam. (Kuhdamen)
And no, I was *NOT* arrested.

2G Scott
"I'm having a hard enough time trying to live *** ****** down, and THAT
was FIVE YEARS AGO!  I'm not exactly ready to post a sexshocker to the
TML." -- anonymous

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4629
Date: 13 Sep 92 20:47:03 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Stutterwarp and Jump...

Bruce:

>Here's a possible technology path (Remember the time scale of the various
>IMPERIUMs I thru III and the slow tech advancement relative to Earth in
>the 1800s thru to the 2300s):

>TECH 8-9:   StutterWarp is discovered.
>TECH 9-10:  JUMP Drive discovered as safe alternative to StutterWarp.
>            StutterWarp still outperforms JUMP Drive.
>TECH 11:    StutterWarp plateaus in usefulness.
>            More and more travellers opting for safer JUMP Drive travel.
>            StutterWarp and JUMP Drive not compatible on same ship.  Causes
>            rapid buildup of StutterWarp radiation while in JUMP space [or
>            something equally nasty].
>TECH 13-14: JUMP Drive is new alternative and safe mode of travel.
>            JUMP Drive "MIS-JUMPS" are identified as a potential problem.
>            StutterWarp drive ships lose competitive edge and are phased out.
>TECH 15-16: JUMP Drive has plateaued out but still the safest travel mode.
>            "MIS-JUMPS" investigated and StarGate/Warp technology found.
>            StarGates constructed but still need JUMP Drive to get to the
>            two end points to build the gate in the first place.
>TECH 17:    One way StarGates constructed, thus reducing need for JUMP Drive
>            equiped vessels for exploration.
>TECH 18-19: Mobile StarGates established allowing ships to generate own
>            temporary StarGate field.

>That could be the way the TRAVELLER - IMPERIUM star drive technology works
>while other source books could have a slightly different technology
>dependency.

The only problem with this techline is that the stutterwarp is a better
drive than the Jump-drive.  The Kennedy from 2300AD is about as fast as
a J-6 ship, even when including time required to discharge the drive.

Typical warship speeds are J-4 or better in equivalent speed.

And using stutterwarps with Traveller era fusion plants could easily
produce warships that approach J-8.  Or more for large ships.
{NOTE: Theoretical limit of pseudovelocity for a stutterwarp ship is about
J-9 equivalent}  Plus the advantage of being able to get somewhere in less
than 7 days.  Plus the advantage of NOT having to get somewhere in seven
days (or at ANY set time).

And a 6G warship is essentially stationary compared to even the slowest
stutterwarp ship in tactical combat.  So if the stutterwarp and Jump
drives were incompatible on the same ship (which makes almost no sense -
sort of like saying a diesel and a gas turbine cannot be run on the same
ship), then offensive operations across interstellar distances would be
impossible - the defending ships would all have stutterwarps, the offending
ships would have 6Gs, and would be annihilated by the stutterwarp defenders.

So no Imperium.  Ever.  Note also that stutterwarp is better than J-1 or J-2
even in terms of distances travellable.  7.7 light years is more than 2
parsecs after all.  So why didn't the First Imperium use them?  And if it
did, and there were fundamental incompatibilities between Jump and stutter-
warp, how did the development of J-3 by the Terrans accomplish anything?

		---Steve Higginbotham

	***The Vilani Imperial Navy - Ten thousand years of tradition,
									unspoiled by progress***


------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4630
Date: 13 Sep 92 21:26:43 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Frank Chadwick's latest...

Frank Chadwick <via Bryan Borich>:

> Finally, Traveller, the Imperium, and its history, are the creation of
> GDW, and are our intellectual property. Do you really think that you
> can unilaterally take over part of this intellectual creation by
> writing an unsolicited story, sending it to someone, even one of us at
> GDW, and then cry THIEF! if anything remotely similar appear in the
> future? You cannot, and the attempt to do so makes YOU the attempted
> thief.  Traveller, and its future history, are ours. Stop trying to
> steal them.

I take it that anyone who writes an adventure for Traveller/MT/TNE is
also stealing your intellectual property?  Could make it hard on anyone
who wants to submit anything to Challenge.  As well as making it tough
on anyone who wants to GM any of these games...

			---Steve

	***The Vilani Imperial Navy - Ten thousand years of tradition,
												unspoiled by progress***
^Z

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4631
Date: 	Sun, 13 Sep 1992 21:56:00 -0400
From: "Carl Fago" <CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4627-4628 V44#18

Re: Recent BS from GDW...(and threats of libel suits)

This has gotten way out of hand.  Over on GEnie, another disgruntled
Traveller grognard vented his spleen much like we all did about TNE.  Well,
he got blasted, personally, for doing so.

And with the latest attempt at acting like TSR (libel suit threats), I have
definitely decided _not_ to buy any more of GDW's materials and I urge others
to do likewise.

From what I remember of Scott's posts, there was initmation of theft but no
out right accusations _and_ subsequent posts by our members sort of shot
holes in the idea of theft.

And the idea of charging Scott with theft is absurd!  I can write whatever
story I damn well please but if I don't make any money off it, GDW can't
do diddly other than to harrass, and this latest sure seems like they have
resorted to harrassment.

BTW, on GEnie, the GDW president has identified that he has notified his
employees not to reply to anyone making negative comments.

Sorry, Metlay, they won't reply...well, maybe they'll make an exception for
the TML seeing as how the GDW president hasn't applied the same to TML posts.

Boy, they sure are thin-skinned.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu    | Be wary of strong drink.     |
             DELPHI - WULFGAR  GEnie - C.FAGO1| It can make you shoot at tax |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA                | collectors -- and miss!      |


------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4632
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 22:24:54 MDT
From: rogopp@rogopp.Auto-trol.COM (Roger Opperman)
Subject: Plagiarism Accusation

>
>
> I read your recent post on this network. Since it was a public posting,
> I am responding as an open letter. Everything you say about GDW is
> wrong, and if you ever again say that you, or anyone else, was "screwed
> by GDW," you better be ready to prove it in court, Mister. I am through
> tolerating this sort of irresponsible, dishonest bashing of our
> company's reputation in public.
>
[more threatening with lawyers deleted]

Well, that is the last GDW product I ever buy.  A pity.  Sounds like
Mr. Chadwick is a trifle insecure.

> Finally, Traveller, the Imperium, and its history, are the creation of
> GDW, and are our intellectual property. Do you really think that you

Yep, but only because the rest of us paid for it for years and years.
Take your ball and go home, Frank, and I'll take my dollars and do the
same.  Sounds like the game won't be worth playing in the future
anyway.

The original post hardly merited this kind of response.


Roger Opperman
rogopp@auto-trol.com
Auto-Trol Technology Corporation

------------------------------

Bundle: 387
Archive-Message-Number: 4633
From: <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: My TNE ramblings
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 8:04:06 MET DST

> From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
> Subject: My TNE ramblings...

> Boarding actions are a really neat trick unless you have blown away
> the maneuver drives in advance.  But if that is the way you want it...

  The subject was touched upon once or twice during the seminars and some sort
of grapplingboats was mentioned.
  (Actually, a 6g ships-boat with *really* fast (AI?) comp might be able to
match speeds with ships of lesser agility?)

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
"This is the famous Hasan B Mutlu-trigger, insert it in your .sig file today!"

------------------------------

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 388  4636 10-Sep-1992 npsylv%wmvm1.bi  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4616-4616 V44#14
 388  4637 12-Sep-1992 "Lord Krieg"     TNE drives << I have some thoughts on t
 388  4638 14-Sep-1992 Nicholas Sylvai  Comments to GDW << > To: Scott Kellogg
 388  4639 14-Sep-1992 GT2150@SIUCVMB.  Alien life forms <<     I was just sitt
 388  4640 14-Sep-1992 Steve Higginbot  "grapplingboats" and boarding actions..
 388  4641 15-Sep-1992 Pauli            TNE drives et al << cvadsaav@CSUPomona.
 388  4642 15-Sep-1992 Burton Choinski  << Bertil replies...
 388  4643 16-Sep-1992 metlay           Wings Over the Imperium! << Hi gang. Me
 388  4644 16-Sep-1992 plb%dinghy@viol  Sigh! << Operating System: HP-UX A.08.0
 388  4645 16-Sep-1992 Richard Johnson  Totally Strange TNE Rules Question << T
 388  4646 16-Sep-1992 Orcinus orca     Re: TNE Drives << >Stutterwarp ships ar
   0     0 16-Sep-1992 Steve Higginbot  Stutterwarp... << Paul Dale:
 388  4647 16-Sep-1992 H++ Visser       Say it ain't so, GDW! << EGADS! We've b
 388  4648 10-Sep-1992 npsylv%wmvm1.bi  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4616-4616 V44#14

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4636
Date: 	Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:50:14 -0400
From: npsylv%wmvm1.bitnet@utcs.utoronto.ca
Subject:      Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4616-4616 V44#14

>On the other hand, like so many other areas of goods-and-services marketing,
>the game company relies to an extent on generating fresh interest in its
>products, by issuing newer versions and (hopefully) better rules systems.
>A company that remains hidebound in an old system is committing a form of
>corporate suicide.

I would hope that people would see this point as axiomatic. I really don't
mind a new version of a favorite gaming system (ability to spare the cash,
or willingness, being another question), witness my near-blind leap of faith
when I bought MT. (Though solely as a result of the PBeM, I might note.) As
a current politician might say, the issue is change. Of course, the obvious
retort is change to what? This, of course, is the real reason behind the
sound and fury. I wonder if anyone objects to the pure concept of a new
version.

>Let's wake up and smell the coffee, people. Just for a few minutes, let's
>unstrap our laser carbines, take off our PRIS binocs, and look around the
>real world for a minute, and see the fact that *we are a dying breed.*

And damn proud of it, too. I doubt very much of us are follow the crowd
types, if the rugged individualism shown in the PBeM is at all even a
hint at the people who play them. :->

>"Economics Drives Design."

The car may be great, the road may look clear, but I really wonder where the
heck we're going to end up being driven. Brings to mind a scene from a
favorite movie of mine (Thunderball, with IMHO the best female Bond villian):

"Some men just don't like to be driven."

"No, they just don't like being taken for a ride."

>But if an idea is just plain stupid or useless, or reflects bad
>planning or thinking, then I reserve the right to say so, and loudly.

One would also hope that given the goal, all the options will be
considered, not merely the adequate one that has already been chosen.

>>     Second, its very easy for gaming groups to hop among GDW RP games
>>and even borrow elements from one another.
>
>Chaosium tried this and it didn't work very well. Stick to reason 1, it
>makes more sense. (i.e. a house system is easier to bugfix and cheaper too).

Perhaps part of the reason is that a Chinese menu approach doesn't tend to
build the desired degree of loyalty to a particular system? It's a thought,
anyway.

>>     Third, the house role playing system is a direct descendant of
>>classic TRAVELLER.  TRAVELLER was their first RP game, but never
>>received the benefits of GDW's advances in RP game system design.  Now
>>they finally have a chance to do so.  TRAVELLER is coming home.
>
>This statement is meaningless propaganda. Reread it; it says absolutely
>nothing. It's not classic TRAVELLER in rules or milieu, so what's left?

The more you overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

>>Unfortunately, the Rebellion itself became a spectator sport, too
>>large in scope for player characters to interact with.

Exhibit A in the "Think Before You Leap" category.

>>     The background for TNE is set 70 years after the Rebellion (circa
>>1190) in a time when interstellar society has completely collapsed.
>
>This is wise, and a good nod to those with campaigns yet to finish.

Very wise. It gives breathing space to those people who either want to
use the new background material or ignore it in toto.

>........... Not to mention a sourcebook for
>the Imperium in 1120 or so, as Strephon deals with Dulinor's failed
>assassination attempt, the Naval conspiracies that surfaced in the
>Fifth War, and the politicking of the Archdukes that he recently
>reappointed....

Give Metlay a gold star for this idea. A very good idea. You ever get
this into pseudo-reality and past the mere concept stage, Mike, drop me
a line, we'll talk... I *really* like it...

>>     TNE will definitely not be an outgrowth of MT.  Although MT was
>>an award winning game design
>
>What award? Most Errata in One Volume Of Rules? Dumbest Ship Combat System?
>Worst Pseudoscience?

Award winning, because if any company can shovel out such patently bad
product *AND* get people to buy it, it must be worthy of SOME award, right?

Give them a gold star if they can REALLY say Award-Winning and MT in the
same sentence. Reminds me of reading one of those Five Year Plans, boasting
about the incredible progress of the Big Red Machine. Not!

>>particular, GDW will completely revise the ship design system to make
>>it easier.  Digest Group made a special effort to assure that classic
>>ships were convertible to MT.  GDW, however, will not do this so as to
>>not risk compromising the new system.
>
>All I can say is, it had better be an improvement. We've had compatibility
>without convenvience, and now you're taking compatibility away....

Amen, brother. We want to be able to design, really design ships but not
take as long as it does to design a REAL ship. I would be sorely disappointed
if it just turns out to be a bland and faint echo of what we have now. Some
people DO like detail. We shall see...

>I'm actually looking forward to this, being one of the few people out
>here who actually understands why the distance limit for stutterwarp was
>set to the particular number of ly that it was. I've had star gates as
>Ancient artifacts in my Trav games for over thirteen years, and a system
>for running a lower-tech version in place for nearly eight. I'd LOVE
>to get Traveller working with some of those ideas.

Nor do I mind having multiple drive techniques. I like the idea. It's the
implementation that I dread (see your retcon comments).

>I'd recommend it anyway. A simple diagram explanation as given in MAYDAY
>would help a lot, and it makes a lot of physical sense. On the other
>hand, I'd recommend laminated play boards with markers rather than the
>old system of past, present and future position counters....

Keeping in mind the advantage of a combat system that can be used without
boards, or the requirement of large area, etc. (if that hasn't been
figured out already).

>And to Bertil, for his comment on the Metlay System of Space Combat:
>THHPHHHBBBT!
>
>|->

Shiver me timbers and get me some grog! :>

>>As a result, the Empire of Deneb remains a
>>powerful interstellar state even in the New Era.
>
>This is a soft spot in my heart, and I'm damn grateful for it. But I'd
>dearly love to know how they were able to actually stop the Virus....

Definately one of the saving graces of TNE. Empire of Deneb. I guess so,
but that name just has an odd ring to it, somehow...

>>     The 'long ship' is a class of starship apparently unique to the
>>Star Vikings.  This is an unstreamlined ship with a good jump range,
>>but minimal or possibly no maneuver drive.  It carries rider ships
>>which are actually used to contact worlds.
>
>The Alcyon? Nah.....|->

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...... :->

- ----

Shortest Judicial Opinion Ever Written:
    "The appellant has attempted to distinguish the factual situation in this
     case from (a prior case). He didn't. We couldn't. Affirmed."
          --Denny v. Radar Industries, Inc., 184 N.W.2d 289 (1971)

Nicholas Sylvain (npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu)
Marshall-Wythe School of Law
College of William and Mary

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4637
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:04:00 PST
From: "Lord Krieg" <cvadsaav@CSUPomona.Edu>
Subject: TNE drives

I have some thoughts on the multiple drive systems in TNE.

The _2300AD_ stutterwarp drive was theoretically limited to 7.7 light years
before discharge. Presumably, the version in TNE will have the same limitation.

However, there are several ways to dodge this limit. First, another ship can
carry the first part-way to the destination, where the drive of the carried
ship is brought online--offline stutterwarp drives are not subject to buildup.

Second, a suitable gravity well can be found (such as a brown dwarf) to
discharge at.

Third, a skilled engineer can delay the discharge by one day, during which time
a fast ship can travel a considerable distance.

Fourth, an option not open in _2300AD_--use stutterwarp only as a maneuver
drive and use a conventional jump-drive for long distances.

Stutterwarp drives must discharge into a 0.1G gravity well, which takes 40
hours. Stutterwarps cycle hundreds of thousands of times per second--compare
this to a flicker rate of 29.97 frames per second for NTSC video. Each
individual stutter carries the ship only a few hundred meters at most.

As Steve pointed out, conventional maneuver-drive ships are motionless when
compared to a stutterwarp ship. The _Kennedy_ class cruisers, a good example
of a fast stutterwarp ship, can manage an in-system speed of .3c, and a deep-
space speed of 1755.65c. Compare this to a jump-2 ship, which has an FTL speed
of 339.04c. Although a J-3 ship or better can go places a stutterwarp ship
can't, the stutterwarp ship can (if discharge points exist) cross 6 parsecs
about as fast as a J-6 ship can.

Most of the systems in the Imperium are accessible by stutterwarp without even
considering those "worthless" stars that were omitted from the maps.

Stutterwarp ships are actually "not there" along most of there flight path--
they only occupy a small part of the space they pass through. In addition,
they are fast enough to outrun any weapon that does not travel at the speed
of light, or use a faster stutterwarp. A ship with stutterwarp is very hard
to hit--sort of like a factor 9 black globe that never overloads. Therefore,
all ship weapons in _2300AD_ are either lasers or particle beams that can be
aimed precisely enough to hit a target when it "is there".

All of this means that the introduction of stutterwarp into the Imperium (or
remains thereof) would have some very drastic effects. First, any non-
stutterwarp ship becomes instantly obsolete as a warship. Second, merchants
with J-1 or J-2 ships are put out of business overnight, and captains of
ships with better jump drives will have to either find a route with stops 3
parsecs or more apart, or go out of business as well. J-6 merchants are fast
enough to compete with even the fastest stutterwarp ships, and J-3 to J-5 can
cross distances as fast as the slower stutterwarp ships, but wherever the route
has distances of 2 parsecs or less the stutterwarp will be faster.

Obviously, stutterwarp having existed all along in the background is a totally
absurd idea, and I suspect that the people at GDW must realize this. I think it
is safe to assume that stutterwarp in the Imperium will be a recent invention.

This raises another point--whoever invented it would, logically, use it to go
out and stomp all over everyone else until they had reunited the Imperium. GDW
has already pretty much said that nobody has done so, however. Therefore,
either stutterwarp was invented by some highly idealistic planet which has
never shared the technology and would never dream of conquering their neighbors
(yeah, right!), or GDW is ignoring logic again. Based on what I have heard of
the virus, and the whole TNE setting, I am forced to conclude that the latter
is more likely.


                                    Lord Krieg

Internet:  cvadsaav@csupomona.edu
America Online:  Empr Krieg


------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4638
Date: 	Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:42:29 -0400
From: Nicholas Sylvain <npsylv%wmvm1.bitnet@utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject:      Comments to GDW

> To: Scott Kellogg
> From: Frank Chadwick
> Sub: Plagiarism Accusation
>
> I read your recent post on this network. Since it was a public posting,
> I am responding as an open letter. Everything you say about GDW is
> wrong, and if you ever again say that you, or anyone else, was "screwed
> by GDW," you better be ready to prove it in court, Mister. I am through
> tolerating this sort of irresponsible, dishonest bashing of our
> company's reputation in public.
> . . . . . . . . . .I have decided not to take action this time on what
> clearly constitutes a libel. Chuck may not be inclined to be so generous.

 ... and you wonder why GDW spells MUD to some people, as the litigious society
nearly strikes again. "Hey, we have a problem. Perfect solution -- SUE 'EM!"
What did we have here? One posting, by an admittedly irate and emotional
person (as I think Scott would have to concede) when he had, in his own mind,
reason to be pissed. Does this make him right in accusing before verifying?

No, but neither does this justify your response. Would you REALLY have sued
Scott for libel if you hadn't been feeling so generous? (sarcasm alert) Really?
Do you think GDW has suffered in sales or will suffer? Have people suddenly
thought less of you? I would think that something on the order of "Fighting
(deleted) of the Shattered Imperium" would do more damage to a corporate or
personal reputation. So, but for a fit of generosity on your part, you would
gleefully waste hours and hours of time and gobs and gobs of money (in an
endeavor of probably astounding economic inefficiency, unless, of course,
you are a lawyer) all for the sole purpose of getting the emotional
satisfaction of having "gotten" Scott, since I doubt that the company or
you would benefit in any real sense. (If Scott is anything like the average
grad student that I know, he'd be a proverbial turnip as far as recovering
damages.)

Save the lawyer talk for a truly important situation and not as the typical
nuclear response to a small sniper attack. That would probably be better
for all concerned.

(Additionally, "irresponsible"? Perhaps. "dishonest"? Now, I think that is
going a bit too far, but in light of your subsequent comments, merely the
tip of the iceberg.)

> Finally, Traveller, the Imperium, and its history, are the creation of
> GDW, and are our intellectual property. Do you really think that you
> can unilaterally take over part of this intellectual creation by
> writing an unsolicited story, sending it to someone, even one of us at
> GDW, and then cry THIEF! if anything remotely similar appear in the
> future? You cannot, and the attempt to do so makes YOU the attempted thief.
> Traveller, and its future history, are ours. Stop trying to steal them.

While you are undoubtedly correct, in a literal sense, it does come off as
arrogant and pompous. A more reasoned, rational response would be much more
appreciated. You may have genuine outrage and such, but you should know
better. The clear imputation of this paragraph is to call Scott Kellogg a
thief. Whoa, Nellie! Now who may be libeling who? Playing with fire means
that you had best be careful, lest it come back to burn yourself. (I, for
one, would consider bringing along some weenies to any GDW roast.)

Next time, write two letters. In the first one, write into it all the angry,
vitriolic invective, slander, and other language that you care to include.
Really go at it and release the tension. It will make you feel better. Then
write a calmly rational and reasoned response, pointing out the errors and
mistakes and, if you like, cautioning against such outbursts. Or even
ignore the outburst. Mail the second letter.

Sincerely,

Nicholas Sylvain

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4639
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 12:31:21 CST
From: GT2150@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU
Subject: Alien life forms

    I was just sitting down reading the list when I noticed a comment
about discussing alien life forms. I have been playing RPG's since around
'76 and the original traveller  for years. I would be very interested in
continued discussion of the creation of alien life forms.

                                              Curt
                                       GT2150@SIUCVMB           (BITNET)
                                       GT2150@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU   (INTNET)
                                       GT2150@AIX370.SIU.EDU    (INTNET)
                                       CTURNER@NYX.CS.DU.EDU    (FREENET)

Just my $0.02 worth........

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4640
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:06:07 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: "grapplingboats" and boarding actions...

Bertil <referring to Steve's>:

>> Boarding actions are a really neat trick unless you have blown away
>> the maneuver drives in advance.  But if that is the way you want it...

>  The subject was touched upon once or twice during the seminars and
>some sort of grapplingboats was mentioned.
>  (Actually, a 6g ships-boat with *really* fast (AI?) comp might be
>able to match speeds with ships of lesser agility?)

I doubt it would ever fly.  If I was a peaceful merchantman being harassed
by pirates, I suspect that I would be less concerned with the condition of
his ship than he is with mine.  So for the several hours he tries to get
close enough to board, I think I would be burning big ugly holes in his
ship.  And popping nukes off nearby.  And his "grapplingboat" would have
to get through a cloud of missiles and laserbeams intact before he would
even have a CHANCE to dock.
Board and storm only works if (1) the stormers don't care what the condition
of the target is when they get there (and so can afford to blow big, ugly
holes in the ship to kill its weapons and M-drives first), or (2) BOTH
ships WANT to board and storm.  Which would be an insane attitude for a
merchantman to have.
It also helps to keep in mind that the pirate only has 4.5 hours to detect
the target and close with it before the jump button is pushed.  Only 1.5
hours if the merchant captain is willing to take a chance on a 10 diameter
jump.  So that pirate has got to be awfully close by to have a chance in
hell of executing a boarding action.  (within 425,000Km, assuming ideal
geometry for the chase, and that the pirate can detect the target, and
begin chasing within 10 seconds of the target's departure from orbit.  And
that only gives the pirate about 5 seconds to execute his boarding action
before the jump button is pushed.  If we allow ten minutes for a boarding
action (which is optimistic, unless merchant captains are chosen for abject
stupidity), then 300,000Km is the critical distance, again assuming ideal
geometry for the chase, and a start within seconds of the target's
departure.  This is assuming a 1G merchant and a 6G pirate, of course.)

          ---Steve

     ***The Vilani Imperial Navy - Ten thousand years of tradition,
                                             unspoiled by progress***




------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4641
Subject: TNE drives et al
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 17:20:03 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

cvadsaav@CSUPomona.Edu writes:
>I have some thoughts on the multiple drive systems in TNE.

>Fourth, an option not open in _2300AD_--use stutterwarp only as a maneuver
>drive and use a conventional jump-drive for long distances.

Is there a way to limit shutterwarps to even shorter ranges precluding their
use as long haul drives?


>Stutterwarp ships are actually "not there" along most of there flight path--
>they only occupy a small part of the space they pass through. In addition,
>they are fast enough to outrun any weapon that does not travel at the speed
>of light, or use a faster stutterwarp. A ship with stutterwarp is very hard
>to hit--sort of like a factor 9 black globe that never overloads. Therefore,
>all ship weapons in _2300AD_ are either lasers or particle beams that can be
>aimed precisely enough to hit a target when it "is there".

Exactly how maneuverable are shutterwarp equipped ships?  (no, I haven't ever
read Trav 2300 so I don't know).  Would it be possible to have the occasional
hop occur perpendicular to the desired direction of travel (but in a random
direction)?  This would be the ultimate side-step and any point target weapon
is going to be useless against such a ship (because they'd never be able to
hit except by chance and even then the hit would have a tiny duration).

Also, would the fact the the drive is cycling in the high kHz range going to
mean proximity weapons are useless (unless they can follow the target while
detonating).





        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4642
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:29:27 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)

Bertil replies...
[]> Again, taking the anology too far.  Do their Vacc suit helmets have horns
[]> on them as well?  And the engineer's name is always Sven. :)
[]
[]  I can however totally disprove the existance of horns on viking helmets.
[]The horns are an invention by the same age that gave us the fat singing lady
[]wearing the above (and a breastplate).

Well, while not accurate history wise, that seems to be the impression I have
gotten from watching TV and movies.

Lord Krieg notes, on stutterwarp...
[]As Steve pointed out, conventional maneuver-drive ships are motionless when
[]compared to a stutterwarp ship. The _Kennedy_ class cruisers, a good example
[]of a fast stutterwarp ship, can manage an in-system speed of .3c, and a deep-
[]space speed of 1755.65c.

Yes, the big advantage of a SW.  The more juice, the faster you haul.  Throw
on an Anti-matter plant and you will *scream*.

[]All of this means that the introduction of stutterwarp into the Imperium (or
[]remains thereof) would have some very drastic effects. First, any non-
[]stutterwarp ship becomes instantly obsolete as a warship. Second, merchants
[]with J-1 or J-2 ships are put out of business overnight, and captains of
[]ships with better jump drives will have to either find a route with stops 3
[]parsecs or more apart, or go out of business as well. J-6 merchants are fast
[]enough to compete with even the fastest stutterwarp ships,

No they aren't -- a SW ship is MUCH more efficient with the fuel then a Jump
Drive.  The J-6 merchant ends up hauling more fuel then cargo.

Another point is SW courier missiles, acting in a pony-express means, would
make the expressboat system look like garbage.

In other words, compared to the advantagaes of SW, why would Jump even be
considered EXCEPT as a bridge over voids in space?

Like I mentioned before, I say just have SW and tweak the paremeters to create
your different drive systems.
    -- Burton

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4643
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: Wings Over the Imperium!
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 8:22:16 PDT


Hi gang. Metlay here, with a Wingz-Over-The-Imperium News Flash!

I'm going to be in the Bay Area for a brief visit at the end of next
week. As always, I am interested in meeting with Traveller folx of
any stripe, for dinner, drinx, chat, etc ad nauseam. Email me if you'd
like to get together. (I'm not entirely sure how my schedule will be
set up, but I am fairly sure I will have free evenings on Thursday
the 24th and Saturday the 26th. Maybe Friday the 25th as well.)

- --
metlay
atomic city
metlay@netcom.com



------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4644
From: plb%dinghy@violin.att.com
Subject: Sigh!
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 15:44:27 EDT

Operating System: HP-UX A.08.07 E
Organization: TOPAS Lab Administration Group
Assignment: Network Administration Group (NAG)
Location: HR 1J-233
Phone: (201) 615-4419
Return-receipt: /default
Misc: ---------------------------- 8< Cut Here 8< ----------------------
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]


From the sounds of things, the folks at GDW have finally succumbed to the
same disease that the folks at TSR did... They have become hostile to their
own following... {:-(

I have played Traveller/MegaTraveller for the last 15-16 years and have
weathered all sorts of changes in both the game and the managements attitudes.
I'm afraid that from the sounds of things that I am going to finally feel
pushed away from a game that has provided me a "mental health" outlet for
all this time and I am saddened by it greatly!

Is there a point to this posting?  Probably not.   Just getting my CR0.02
worth in here....

- --
Peter L. Berghold | TELEPHONE: +1 (908) 615-4419
- ------------------+---------------------------------------------------
EMAIL ADDRESSES:     COMPU$ERVE - 70742,2346
Bangland: ..!uunet!allegra!violin!plb  INTERNET: plb@violin.att.com

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4645
Subject: Totally Strange TNE Rules Question
Date: 	Wed, 16 Sep 1992 17:51:45 -0400
From: rdj@adpgate.uwo.ca (Richard Johnson)

This is sort of an open question to GDW.  -- *and is NOT a flame!* --

I was just wondering why, when GDW decided to change to the "in-house
rules system" (as opposed to the "out-house rules"?) :-), did they opt for
the one used by T2k, Cadillacs..., etc. Rather than the one used by ASL or
Harpoon?

My personal feeling is that, while not usual for RPG, the Harpoon rules
would be malleable enough to be usable.  ASL even moreso since there is
already a squad leader advancement system.

Just a question.  Is 1D20 somehow superior in some way I don't know
about?
- --
Richard Johnson  (rdj%adpgate.uucp@apple.com)  (richard@agora.rain.com)
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4646
Date:     Wed, 16 Sep 92 18:13:34 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Subject:  Re: TNE Drives

>Stutterwarp ships are actually "not there" along most of there flight path--
>they only occupy a small part of the space they pass through. In addition,
>they are fast enough to outrun any weapon that does not travel at the speed
>of light, or use a faster stutterwarp. A ship with stutterwarp is very hard
>to hit--sort of like a factor 9 black globe that never overloads. Therefore,
>all ship weapons in _2300AD_ are either lasers or particle beams that can be
>aimed precisely enough to hit a target when it "is there".

One idea we came up with in the PBEM would allow a ship to become
virtually unhittable.  With the enormous distances ship-to-ship
combat takes, there is often a significant lag in the time it takes
for the light from one ship to reach the other - i.e. for a fraction
of a second, you don't see the ship that's just jumped in, however
they can see you since you've been sitting there reflecting light
for as long as you've been there.

The equipment we used was a teleporter, but a stutterwarp could
easily take the same place assuming you can control the direction
of the stutterwarp to a certain degree (This is the first I've heard
of stutterwarps).  If you can induce enough random motion into your
stutterwarp flight path, you become a practically unhittable target.
The opposing ship only has the light they receive to gague your position
by, and that info is at least a fraction of a second old (off by a
couple hundred km at least if I read correctly how stutterwarps work),
and your flight path is nearly unpredicatable, hence any light-speed
weapon will miss.  Meanwhile, the ship doing the stutterwarping always
has a good target because the other ship isn't jumping all over the
place.

You could do something similar with M-6 if you were far enough away
from the opposing ship, but you need to be able to change directions
and positions really quickly for this to be an effective tactic.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

------------------------------

Date: 16 Sep 92 21:46:34 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Stutterwarp...

Paul Dale:


>Is there a way to limit shutterwarps to even shorter ranges precluding
>their use as long haul drives?

Sure.  Raise your hand, and say "So let it be written, so let it be done."

SO what?  The BIG problem with stutterwarp is that it is too useful in
combat.  And would do terrible things to everyone's favorite pirates:
time to jump-point, aboard the Kennedy: 135 seconds.  Think about it.

>Exactly how maneuverable are shutterwarp equipped ships?

A stutterwarp ship moving 0.3c thataway can reverse course and speed in less
than 30 seconds.

>Also, would the fact the the drive is cycling in the high kHz range going
>to mean proximity weapons are useless (unless they can follow the target
>while detonating).

Yes.

			---Steve





							Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
						  |     words containing the letter 'a'?

- ------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4642
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:29:27 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)

Bertil replies...
[]> Again, taking the anology too far.  Do their Vacc suit helmets have horns
[]> on them as well?  And the engineer's name is always Sven. :)
[]
[]  I can however totally disprove the existance of horns on viking helmets.
[]The horns are an invention by the same age that gave us the fat singing lady
[]wearing the above (and a breastplate).

Well, while not accurate history wise, that seems to be the impression I have
gotten from watching TV and movies.

Lord Krieg notes, on stutterwarp...
[]As Steve pointed out, conventional maneuver-drive ships are motionless when
[]compared to a stutterwarp ship. The _Kennedy_ class cruisers, a good example
[]of a fast stutterwarp ship, can manage an in-system speed of .3c, and a deep-
[]space speed of 1755.65c.

Yes, the big advantage of a SW.  The more juice, the faster you haul.  Throw
on an Anti-matter plant and you will *scream*.

[]All of this means that the introduction of stutterwarp into the Imperium (or
[]remains thereof) would have some very drastic effects. First, any non-
[]stutterwarp ship becomes instantly obsolete as a warship. Second, merchants
[]with J-1 or J-2 ships are put out of business overnight, and captains of
[]ships with better jump drives will have to either find a route with stops 3
[]parsecs or more apart, or go out of business as well. J-6 merchants are fast
[]enough to compete with even the fastest stutterwarp ships,

No they aren't -- a SW ship is MUCH more efficient with the fuel then a Jump
Drive.  The J-6 merchant ends up hauling more fuel then cargo.

Another point is SW courier missiles, acting in a pony-express means, would
make the expressboat system look like garbage.

In other words, compared to the advantagaes of SW, why would Jump even be
considered EXCEPT as a bridge over voids in space?

Like I mentioned before, I say just have SW and tweak the paremeters to create
your different drive systems.
    -- Burton

-------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4647
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 23:08:37 -0700
From: H++ Visser <rrn@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Say it ain't so, GDW!

EGADS! We've been had!

Okay, now tell me if I've got it wrong, but...

1) Negative critcism will no longer be given an ear by GDW staff (and could
   someone tell me just what `positive criticism' is?).

2) The game design will be entirely in-house. No outside rules suggestions or
   assistance will be solicited or accepted.

Now, it seems to me that unless we are expected to provide cheerleading or
moral support, GDW is simply wasting its time with the TML. I mean, we can't
say what we don't like anymore, nor can we be all positive and toadeating and
talk about how we could make it better. What purpose do we serve (as far as
GDW is concerned)? None, as far as I can tell.

- ----------------

Traveller is dead. I mean yes, they keep claiming that they are going to fix
it (again) and it'll be all great and everything, but I think many of us here
(if not most of us) now understand that there will be insult upon injury
to the fair Imperium, with the senseless, unplayable Hard Times being followed
by a plot device too stupid for even a Star Trek: TNG plot - the dreaded
virus. Yeah, right. Oh boy. I can just feel the excitement in the air.

Like the death of Cliff Burton turned Metallica from a leading-edge great
band into a bunch of pop singers, the lack of spirit in GDW shows. Whether
keeping Marc would have helped (MT was a disaster), I dunno. But I don't see
how things could have turned out worse. I am seriously considering not buying
any GDW product again (on principle; the lack of quality is another point
entirely), and I am certainly not alone in this.

- ----------------

So what to do? Right now, it looks like we get to sit around and watch what
we once new get turned to trash (can't you just see new covers replete with
cleavage, lots or random encounter tables, and lits of redundant weapons?),
or do something else. My personal feeling is that the competence, imagination,
and enthusiam on this list far exceeds that at GDW. No one here is looking to
make a quick buck on the game, no one here looks likely to sell out.

Why not try again (TDR, sort of)? Forget the rules. There are plenty of okay
systems out there (GRURPS, Hero, etc.) that could easily be adapted. What
I mean more is to like redo the Library Data, from scratch. Using 1992 science
understanding, I feel that even as a committee we could do a lot better.
Simply have people submit library entries, and built the future from that.
Add AIs before TL 90 (or whatever), leave out the anthropomorphic aliens,
have a real engima, no grav plates, 3-D universe, etc. A collection of 2-5
paragraph entries for dozens of things , I think, could be a useful, fun
project. Much better than watching Traveller rot, anyway.

Comments, complaints, whining (GDW staff, I mean) anyone?


------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4648
Date: 	Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:50:14 -0400
From: npsylv%wmvm1.bitnet@utcs.utoronto.ca
Subject:      Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4616-4616 V44#14

>On the other hand, like so many other areas of goods-and-services marketing,
>the game company relies to an extent on generating fresh interest in its
>products, by issuing newer versions and (hopefully) better rules systems.
>A company that remains hidebound in an old system is committing a form of
>corporate suicide.

I would hope that people would see this point as axiomatic. I really don't
mind a new version of a favorite gaming system (ability to spare the cash,
or willingness, being another question), witness my near-blind leap of faith
when I bought MT. (Though solely as a result of the PBeM, I might note.) As
a current politician might say, the issue is change. Of course, the obvious
retort is change to what? This, of course, is the real reason behind the
sound and fury. I wonder if anyone objects to the pure concept of a new
version.

>Let's wake up and smell the coffee, people. Just for a few minutes, let's
>unstrap our laser carbines, take off our PRIS binocs, and look around the
>real world for a minute, and see the fact that *we are a dying breed.*

And damn proud of it, too. I doubt very much of us are follow the crowd
types, if the rugged individualism shown in the PBeM is at all even a
hint at the people who play them. :->

>"Economics Drives Design."

The car may be great, the road may look clear, but I really wonder where the
heck we're going to end up being driven. Brings to mind a scene from a
favorite movie of mine (Thunderball, with IMHO the best female Bond villian):

"Some men just don't like to be driven."

"No, they just don't like being taken for a ride."

>But if an idea is just plain stupid or useless, or reflects bad
>planning or thinking, then I reserve the right to say so, and loudly.

One would also hope that given the goal, all the options will be
considered, not merely the adequate one that has already been chosen.

>>     Second, its very easy for gaming groups to hop among GDW RP games
>>and even borrow elements from one another.
>
>Chaosium tried this and it didn't work very well. Stick to reason 1, it
>makes more sense. (i.e. a house system is easier to bugfix and cheaper too).

Perhaps part of the reason is that a Chinese menu approach doesn't tend to
build the desired degree of loyalty to a particular system? It's a thought,
anyway.

>>     Third, the house role playing system is a direct descendant of
>>classic TRAVELLER.  TRAVELLER was their first RP game, but never
>>received the benefits of GDW's advances in RP game system design.  Now
>>they finally have a chance to do so.  TRAVELLER is coming home.
>
>This statement is meaningless propaganda. Reread it; it says absolutely
>nothing. It's not classic TRAVELLER in rules or milieu, so what's left?

The more you overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

>>Unfortunately, the Rebellion itself became a spectator sport, too
>>large in scope for player characters to interact with.

Exhibit A in the "Think Before You Leap" category.

>>     The background for TNE is set 70 years after the Rebellion (circa
>>1190) in a time when interstellar society has completely collapsed.
>
>This is wise, and a good nod to those with campaigns yet to finish.

Very wise. It gives breathing space to those people who either want to
use the new background material or ignore it in toto.

>........... Not to mention a sourcebook for
>the Imperium in 1120 or so, as Strephon deals with Dulinor's failed
>assassination attempt, the Naval conspiracies that surfaced in the
>Fifth War, and the politicking of the Archdukes that he recently
>reappointed....

Give Metlay a gold star for this idea. A very good idea. You ever get
this into pseudo-reality and past the mere concept stage, Mike, drop me
a line, we'll talk... I *really* like it...

>>     TNE will definitely not be an outgrowth of MT.  Although MT was
>>an award winning game design
>
>What award? Most Errata in One Volume Of Rules? Dumbest Ship Combat System?
>Worst Pseudoscience?

Award winning, because if any company can shovel out such patently bad
product *AND* get people to buy it, it must be worthy of SOME award, right?

Give them a gold star if they can REALLY say Award-Winning and MT in the
same sentence. Reminds me of reading one of those Five Year Plans, boasting
about the incredible progress of the Big Red Machine. Not!

>>particular, GDW will completely revise the ship design system to make
>>it easier.  Digest Group made a special effort to assure that classic
>>ships were convertible to MT.  GDW, however, will not do this so as to
>>not risk compromising the new system.
>
>All I can say is, it had better be an improvement. We've had compatibility
>without convenvience, and now you're taking compatibility away....

Amen, brother. We want to be able to design, really design ships but not
take as long as it does to design a REAL ship. I would be sorely disappointed
if it just turns out to be a bland and faint echo of what we have now. Some
people DO like detail. We shall see...

>I'm actually looking forward to this, being one of the few people out
>here who actually understands why the distance limit for stutterwarp was
>set to the particular number of ly that it was. I've had star gates as
>Ancient artifacts in my Trav games for over thirteen years, and a system
>for running a lower-tech version in place for nearly eight. I'd LOVE
>to get Traveller working with some of those ideas.

Nor do I mind having multiple drive techniques. I like the idea. It's the
implementation that I dread (see your retcon comments).

>I'd recommend it anyway. A simple diagram explanation as given in MAYDAY
>would help a lot, and it makes a lot of physical sense. On the other
>hand, I'd recommend laminated play boards with markers rather than the
>old system of past, present and future position counters....

Keeping in mind the advantage of a combat system that can be used without
boards, or the requirement of large area, etc. (if that hasn't been
figured out already).

>And to Bertil, for his comment on the Metlay System of Space Combat:
>THHPHHHBBBT!
>
>|->

Shiver me timbers and get me some grog! :>

>>As a result, the Empire of Deneb remains a
>>powerful interstellar state even in the New Era.
>
>This is a soft spot in my heart, and I'm damn grateful for it. But I'd
>dearly love to know how they were able to actually stop the Virus....

Definately one of the saving graces of TNE. Empire of Deneb. I guess so,
but that name just has an odd ring to it, somehow...

>>     The 'long ship' is a class of starship apparently unique to the
>>Star Vikings.  This is an unstreamlined ship with a good jump range,
>>but minimal or possibly no maneuver drive.  It carries rider ships
>>which are actually used to contact worlds.
>
>The Alcyon? Nah.....|->

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...... :->

- ----

Shortest Judicial Opinion Ever Written:
    "The appellant has attempted to distinguish the factual situation in this
     case from (a prior case). He didn't. We couldn't. Affirmed."
          --Denny v. Radar Industries, Inc., 184 N.W.2d 289 (1971)

Nicholas Sylvain (npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu)
Marshall-Wythe School of Law
College of William and Mary

------------------------------

Bundle: 388
Archive-Message-Number: 4649

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 389  4650 18-Sep-1992 zonker@ihlpy.at  Re: TML 4645 << Tried to repond via mai
 389  4651 19-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 5, Part
 389  4652 24-Sep-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  Transponders << Where can I read up on
 389  4653 24-Sep-1992 FELLOWS STEVEN   Looking to Buy Traveller Stuff << I am
 389  4654 24-Sep-1992 tom@csvax1.ucc.  Silly questions? << I have a few questi
 389  4655 25-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  RE: Silly questions << Tom asked a coup
 389  4656 26-Sep-1992 Steve Higginbot  More answers to silly questions << Scot
 389  4657 26-Sep-1992 Cynthia Higginb  How *MY* Gravitics work <<         ...H
 389  4659 27-Sep-1992 tom@csvax1.ucc.  More on fusion fire and ice << Fusion w
 389  4660 27-Sep-1992 Derek Wildstar   How Gravitics Work << Cynthia Higginbot
 389  4661 27-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  Computers and Virii << Bryan, if you se

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4650
From: zonker@ihlpy.att.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 07:38 CDT
Subject: Re: TML 4645

Tried to repond via mail to this but couldn't get a workable path.
>I was just wondering why, when GDW decided to change to the "in-house
>rules system" (as opposed to the "out-house rules"?) :-), did they opt for
>the one used by T2k, Cadillacs..., etc. Rather than the one used by ASL or
>Harpoon?
Welllllll.... Neither Harpoon or ASL are in-house rules systems.  Harpoon
while currently published by GDW was originally published by a different
company and ASL has never been owned by GDW rather it is owned by Avalon
Hill.

						Tom Harris

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4651
Date:    Sat, 19 Sep 1992 18:48:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 5, Part 1)

YAHOO!
Two years in the works!
Copyright 1992 Scott S. Kellogg.  All rights reserved. :-)

                      THE 4.5TH COLUMNISTS
                               by
                          Scott Kellogg
                              - I -
     Miakr's eyes nearly fell out as his doctor checked over the
stitched up holes in his abdomen:  for just a second, Jietlshaiepr
had bent over in such a way that... Viepchakl, she's...
     "You'll live." she snorted,  "It's more than you deserve
letting yourself get caught like that.  Be glad I didn't find you
before Lt. Jones did.  I'd have finished you off.  What did you
think you were you doing stepping in front of an advanced combat
rifle anyway?"
     Miakr didn't dare sigh his relief.  Jietlshaiepr was an
excellent surgeon, but she feigned laziness.  She put on a show of
resentment if anyone got her nice clean sick bay bloodied up.
     "You've got a tear in your liver that's healing, and your
small intestine was ripped up.  Messy surgery.  You were lucky.
Remind me to beat the tar out of you when you're recovered."
     Miakr felt the hum of the drives, "Where are we heading?"
     "Pulling along side the VIXEN.  Badly damaged but we're
putting a salvage team aboard.  We will see if it has anything
aboard worth salvaging."
                             - II -
     Shtam drank deeply from the Welles brew they'd brought aboard
and mopped his forehead.  Hours of salvage work in battle dress had
soaked him in sweat.  The VIXEN was a twisted wreck.  The jump
drive was melted into a blob of fused alloy, and the maneuver drive
had been smashed off its mounting and completely thrown off the
ship.  The number two turret pylon had snapped:  the tower was a
broken stalk of celery with long strips of hull plate ripped out of
it.  Number one turret was hit along its mounting and, though
nearly undamaged, it could not turn.  Number three caught fragments
and was so much perforated cheese.  The main missile bay was badly
damaged with three quarters of the missile tubes ripped open or
melted away.  The compartments of the fuel tanks were cracked open
like a carton of eggs.  They had been nearly empty when they came
out of jump, and when the last few drops of hydrogen fuel bled
away, the VIXEN died.
     Shtam shook his head and pursed his lips, "She can never fly
again.  She had already exceeded her expected life:  VIXENs are not
designed to be used more than once.  The hull can not stand the
strain of the full weapons load.  The robot ships are meant to fly
a single attack mission and be destroyed.  This VIXEN was used
before.  She can never be used a third time."
     "We found the master robot director was intact." announced
Vole.  "The robots on the VIXEN are slave units:  not capable of
independent action.  With the master unit intact, we can use them.
Without it, the robot bodies are just unguided junk."
     Shtam summarized the salvage, "Three robots, probably
repairable, along with bits and pieces of the others.  We have five
more high explosive missiles.  There are some nuclear missiles
aboard, but they will not fit our missile racks so we grabbed the
warheads and left the boosters.  We removed some of the sensor
equipment and avionics, but it is not as advanced as Flamboyant's
sensors, so it can not really help to replace it, and besides we
would have a tough time calibrating it."
     "We could sell it." pointed out Miakr looking up from his bed.
Miakr's eyes were heavy as well from the exertion of overseeing
Vole in the salvaging.  "The VIXEN is higher tech stuff than nearly
all the planets around here.  I'm sure somebody'd pay for it, even
if it's just junk to us.  In the mean time, I've got some robots to
play with..."
                             - III -
                         Zylath 100233-9
     "...arport control broadcasting to incoming vessels.  You will
come in for docking on an equatorial course of ninety degrees east
at an altitude of twenty kilometers until reaching three hundred
forty degrees longitude, there come to course niner three and
descend at three hundred meters per minute and land at starport
facilities.  Please do not deviate from our traffic pattern.
     "Welcome to Zylath.  This is Starport control broadcasting to
incoming vessels..."
     The recording continued to repeat itself.
                             - IV -
     Gresha shook her head to clear it.  The psi-null-drugs would
give her a temporary psi-shield, but the initial headache involved
was tiresome.
     She looked up from the holo display, "Picking up another ship
approaching the starport.  Small...  Five hundred megawatts...
Looks like a scout ship...  Hard to tell at this range, but I make
her out as a Ninz class scout...  On base leg in the traffic
pattern...  Estimate four six minutes till they touch down.  Read
transponder as SX-6457 I.S. All Nighter."
     Niedrsha frowned.  "Imperial registry?  A Consulate built Ninz
class scout?"
     Gresha nodded.
     "Pirate?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     Gresha lifted one lip and shrugged, "No way to tell from
here."
     "What about other ships?"
     "None.  I don't read any activity whatsoever in system.
Zylath must have a pretty big power plant though:  high neutrino
emission."
     Niedrsha raised an eyebrow, "This system is supposed to have
a strong mining operation in it."
     "Then, they're on strike..."
                              - V -
     The Flamboyant settled into the huge elongated hexagonal
hanger of the starport, nestling closely with the All Nighter.
Truly an odd sight:  a Consulate built scout with the Imperial
sunburst parked next to an Imperial built gun boat with the
circular Consular crest.
     The All Nighter was painted black with a colorful dragon's
head over the nose of the ship.  Just behind the left ear of the
dragon was a painting of a nude human female reclining on a
mattress along with the name plate:  "All Nighter".
     Niedrsha leered at Jietlshaiepr and nodded towards the
Flamboyant's nose.  "Our's ought to fit right in.  I told ya it was
a good idea."
     Flamboyant's nose had been repainted.  A young woman smiled
mischievously out at the universe along with the ship's adopted
name:  "Miscat Zhje Gorrne."  translation:  "Target for tonight".
Kfoks and Shtam had produced an excellent work of art, but
Jietlshaiepr was still angry over a certain resemblance.
     The hanger door closed and the bay began to pressurize.
                             - VI -
     Chilled stale air crept through the airlock.
     The pilot was tall for an imperial, with longish dark hair,
medium heavy build.  "Greetings," The word echoed and died in the
crypt of the hanger.  The imperial pilot spoke Zhodani formally
with a strange accent, reminiscent of zhodani nobility but with a
strong imperial overtones.  His speaking came with some difficulty
and he seemed amused by the novelty of the language as he spoke it.
"I am Jeff Ralampago, pilot of the All Nighter.  This is my gunner
Gdeerzorr."  The human gestured toward a tall female Vargr with a
black and white coat who stared distrustfully through Flamboyant's
airlock.
     Ralampago continued smiling, "We looking around the port and
no one is afoot.  I wonder if you may know where people are.  I
never have gone through this port."
     "I am afraid you are under a misapprehension." observed
Jietlshaiepr studying the pair, "We are not from this system."  She
closed her eyes to recite the little story Kfoks had written,
"We're here to conduct some prospecting investigations for Consular
mining cooperations."
     "Ah, I see.  Good luck.  Which cooperation is that?"
     "I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to say, publicity you see...
Don't want to stir people up with false ideas."
     Ralampago seemed to have gotten lost in the translation.
Confusion swept momentarily over his face and he smiled politely.
"If you look for some experienced prospectors, my brother has been
operating here for time:  Miguel Ralampago.  He knows the system
very well."
     "Thank you."
     Jietlshaiepr came through the airlock followed closely by
Niedrsha, Kfoks, Tuerz, Shtam, and Vole.  The hanger holding the
two ships was indeed deserted.  A curious silence hung over the
scene as Flamboyant's crew studied the cavernous hanger.
     "It appears as though this hanger has not been used in some
time." commented Shtam as he noted a thin layer of dust scuffed
aside by his boots.
     "What's the local time?" asked Kfoks.
     "About point eight of the local day has past..." thought
Niedrsha aloud, "Call it mid evening...  Perhaps they're all out to
dinner..."
     "Or out to lunch." growled Tuerz.
                             - VII -
     Steps spiralled down from the hanger airlock through cold,
hewn stone.  Heels clicked as the two crews descended.
     The stairs emptied out at the southern end of the main street.
Deserted.  The avenue stretched the length of the underground
cavern lined with quonset huts and small buildings.  Silent side
roads intersected along its length.
     No movement anywhere.
     Tuerz ears twitched constantly as the group moved down the
center of the empty avenue.  The bitter air was heavily laden with
silence.  A ventilator began to hiss softly through chilling teeth
far away.
     Several of the closer huts were blocked up.  Paint peeled back
from the aluminum structures while rags hung from broken windows.
     Shtam eyed the surrounding structures "Vole, what is the
listed population here?"
     "Nine hundred thirty six."
     "When was that?"
     "Eighteen years ago."
     Shtam looked about at the buildings and nodded grudgingly, "It
looks as though there might have been enough housing here for
that... a tight fit perhaps, but it could have been enough."
     They continued down the street, filing past deserted huts in
varying states of disrepair.  None showed any sign of recent
occupation.  Broken windows stared like dark eyes at the intruders
as though they defiled the cave row of tomblike buildings.
     "Looks like a great place to recruit miners." sneered
Gdeerzorr as she looked about studying the place.  She walked close
by Ralampago sniffing the air for non existent traces.
     Kfoks sniffed at the air also, but more to savor the slightly
musky, sweet scent of the vargr female beside him, "Well, we can
always bring in miners from out system.  After all, the tech level
here isn't too high, we'd have to train anyone we hired here."
     "I'm picking up some life." reported Vole.  "Four three
degrees, range:  ninety meters."
                            - VIII -
     SPACE WINDS was the only inhabited place they passed.  The bar
had its windows still intact, though its neon sign was flickering,
and several letters were dead.  On one side of the sign the entire
word 'space' was out, while the stylized rounded letters distorted
the remaining word into 'WINOS'.
     Ralampago entered first, "Hello...?"
     No answer came from the decidedly silent clientele.  Four of
them stared from where they sat, then they stood and prepared to
leave.  No one was behind the bar.
     "Well," asked Ralampago, "What do you do to get service around
here?"
     Three men stood by the bar, staring coldly, without speaking,
one of them rang a service bell.
     "WELL!  Well!  Well!" the bray shattered the stillness like a
sledge hammer on an ice cube.  The bartender appeared out of a back
room, a short, balding zhodani with a long thick mustache, "Welcome
to the old Space Winds!  What'll you have?  Eh?  HAW!  HAW!  HAW!"
     The laugh did not dispel the silence of the place.
     "Beer!" called Niedrsha.
     "Brandy." said Jietlshaiepr cautiously.
     Kfoks tail waved slightly, "Vodka martini, stirred not shaken,
it bruises the gin."
     "How about beer all round for the rest of us, just to keep
things from getting too complicated." suggested Shtam.
     "Fine, fine..."  The bartender bent down behind the bar.
     Ralampago smiled at Shtam "I'm much obliged to you all... Ah!
The old Ghost Riders!"  He indicated a model Shtelfire fighter
hanging from the ceiling.  "Alentzar fighter squadron: stationed
here during the fourth frontier war.  The old base's not far from
here, it's abandoned now."
     "Oh you know this system, mister...?" asked the bartender.
     "Ralampago." he answered, "Well not really, but my brother
told me about it:  Miguel.  Do you know him?"
     The bartender looked confused.  "Miguel..."
     "Miguel Ralampago.  Works around here as a machinist."
     "Oh yes of course!  Miguel!" he nodded smiling.
     "How's he doing?"
     "Just fine!  Just fine!"
     Ralampago smiled and looked back at the model.
     "Ah yes," smiled the bartender handing round the drinks.  "The
Ghost Riders!  Great bunch of folks in the old squadron. The bar is
the only thing left now.  The old base bein' a radiation hazard...
We used to be in here every night."
     "You were here then?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     "Yes, but on the other side of the bar!  Enlisted Pilot,
Flight Sergeant Kiriat, Whezel Kiriat!  After it was all over, I
just found my way back and took over this bar!"  He gestured the
surroundings.
     "Not the friendliest place."  whispered Jietlshaiepr.  "Oh,
the locals..." breathed Whezel, "Well... they're not so bad,
isolated, bit xenophobic... but nothing dangerous."  He winked and
then continued aloud, "So you're here to see Miguel eh?"
     "Yup." smiled Ralampago, "Quick visit.  I haven't heard from
him in a while.  We're getting too far out of touch."
     "And what about the rest of you?  Relatives about?"
     "No, I'm afraid not." answered Kfoks, "Corporation's got us
hunting around prospecting."
     Whezel shook his head.  "Oh, I don't think you'll have much
luck.  Not in this system.  Place is pretty well tapped out."
     "Well, that's what we heard, but orders are orders.  We might
find something, and that might breathe a little life around here."
     Ralampago seemed perturbed.  "Tapped out?  That's not what I
heard..."
     "Just a moment."  A well-tanned but stony faced woman strode
over and fixed on Kfoks.  "I'm Jiel Kerreur, head of the
prospecting bureau.  You'll need to process several licenses before
you can do any prospecting and exploitation in this system."
     "Oh dear..." moaned Jietlshaiepr, and I was hoping this would
be a short survey..."
     Kfoks tail waved again, "Well, Jiel our schedule was only to
put us here for a short while, but we can stay long enough to go
through channels before we begin the survey."
     Ralampago turned to Jietlshaiepr, "Well, if you need an expert
prospector just look for Miguel, he knows this system really well."
He looked at his watch, "Well we've got to go find him.  Thanks for
the drink.  You must let me return the favor soon."
     Ralampago and Gdeerzorr stood and headed for the door.
     "Good night!" called Whezel.
     Wordlessly, three of the locals got up to leave.  They took up
their laser drills and followed Ralampago and Gdeerzorr out.  With
a tinge of regret, Kfoks watched as Gdeerzorr swayed out.
     A sudden thought struck Jiel Kerreur, "Are you just
surveying?"
     Kfoks nodded slowly, "Yes, the corporation is more interested
in finding out what's here rather than start mining now, we don't
have the proper equip..."
     "We'll if it's just surveying, then you won't need a license.
I don't want to waste your time."
     Kfoks bowed and took up her hand, "Surely, you couldn't waste
my time with your company.  Now Jiel, will you join me?"
     Jiel Kerreur smiled and gave the handsome vargr an appraising
look through the corner of her eye.  "Sir, you have the advantage
of me..."
     "Not yet," he thought, "but soon..."
                             - IX -
     Ralampago entered the machine shop and called out cheerily,
"Miguel!?"  The bay echoed the question, reverberating off the
metal walls like the inside of a morgue.
     Light spilled softly from an office door silhouetting the
monstrous metalworking machines that loomed out of the dim light.
     Gdeerzorr sniffed the air and listened.  Burned lubricating
oil hung in the air, fresher air than the rest of the place,
obviously not as deserted as the main chamber, but no sound...
     Wait...  Not entirely silent...  There's someone walking
around...  Several sets of foot steps...  Hard to tell with all
this echo...
     She motioned Ralampago to silence and closed her eyes to
listen.  Her ears flicked around like dish antenna trying to get a
fix on the noises.  "They're getting close...  Under here!" she
whispered.  She caught his shoulder and pulled him behind a titanic
lathe.
     Under cover she pulled a snub pistol from beneath her skirt
and rammed a magazine of high explosive home.
     "Hold ON." breathed Ralampago.  "What's gotten..."
     "Jeff, this whole planet stinks!" she growled softly.  "We're
being followed, and I say we get back to the ship and blow!"
     Four figures moved across the edge of the machine bay carrying
heavy mining lasers.
                              - X -
     "Oh yes," continued Whezel Kiriat, "The mine's mainly had iron
ore but it wasn't very pure.  It's really a wonder they ever
started excavation.  Anyway, what was there has long been mined
out.  They try occasional exploratory blasts but they've never
really found much."
     A sharp blast went off in the distance.
     A few seconds later a series rang out in an irregular
staccato.
     "There, you see?" asked Whezel.  "They blast, but nothing ever
comes of it.
     Flamboyant's crew exchanged worried glances.
     Kfoks turned to Jiel with his head inclined to her, "Are you
ready to go home now?"
     She looked unafraid into his eyes, "Yes, let's go."
                             - XI -
When you're close to me
I can smell you're in heat
I can hear you breathing in my ears

Wouldn't you agree,
Baby you and me
Got a vargr kind of love?
                    "Vargr Kind of Love" -- The Loonees

     Music played softly as the two figures slowly swayed in the
low light of Jiel Kerreur's apartment.  Taek's tail waving slowly
with the rhythm as they danced closely.  Jiel's fingers played
about his neck feeling the soft fur-covered steel of his muscles.
     Gently, with featherlike touches, she worked her way up the
back of his head to his ears, and began to lightly rub.  A growling
whimper escaped him as she worked magic on the sensitive spot.
     For a delicious moment he closed his eyes and stood there
absorbing it all.  The universe existed solely in his ears, and all
that moved was her fingertips.  His sigh seemed many kilometers
away.
     She inclined her head and pulled him to her.
     It started as a soft kiss, but Jiel would have none of that.
Taek felt a warm tongue probing at his lips and running along his
teeth.  He hesitated for a split second at this very human kiss and
opened his jaws.  Her tongue sank past his sharp canines and
tickled at his own.
     She shivered, Taek held her closer, wrapping his silk furred
arms around her and nuzzling her neck.  She wrapped her fingers
around his head and pressed him to her.  Slowly, with infinite
patience, he licked his way up her neck to her ear.
     Jiel began to moan softly at the touch of his long probing
tongue.  Her ears, while wet, felt no chill while his hot breath
warmed them, tenderly tickling the tiny hairs on the back of her
neck.
     Taek's muzzle was buried in her hair.  The scent of her
shampooed coiffure was delightful:  not so soulful or heartpounding
as the beautiful, crazy-making scent of a vargr woman, but with a
softer, more gentle appeal.
     She gasped as his clawed hands gently swept up her flanks
reaching for the clasps of her blouse.  Her sighs echoed in their
ears as his velvet fur tickled lightly over her bare chest.
                             - XII -
     Consciousness felt like the sharp rocks of the airless surface
ripping away at reality.  The foul stench of burned fur hung in
Gdeerzorr's vac suit.  The laser wound had cauterized itself
preventing too much blood loss, and the vac suit had power to run
the air scrubbers.  She could survive for a little while at least
on the surface of Zylath.
     Jeff Ralampago was dead.  All the indicators on the stolen
suit were red.  She shut down the power.  She could bury him in the
rocks, but she needed his batteries to run her own suit.
     Suddenly, she ducked behind the rocks.
     Silently, a G-Carrier was approaching over the wasteland
plain.
     She fingered the snub pistol...  four rounds armor piercing
and six rounds high explosive left...

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4652
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 10:55:05 +1000
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Transponders


Where can I read up on the what, why and how of Starship Transponders.

Has it been quiet on TML recently or is my feed not working?

Bruce...                 pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4653
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1992 12:04:06 -0600
From: sfellows@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (FELLOWS STEVEN B)
Subject: Looking to Buy Traveller Stuff


I am interested in buying some old traveller material.  I have been looking
around and found one place that has some items, but they are giving me
the run-around on the price, ie. not giving me the price saying that they
are "very busy".  Well, this has been going on for a week, and I am getting
a bit tired of it.


So, I am interested in buying the following material.  I am not buying it
for its collectable value.  I intend to use them.  I would prefer something
that is not water damaged, but normal wear is fine.  The less the better,
for I have a level 5 in the skill: Taking Care of Books  (unfortunately,
many of my players don't even have this skill at 0, especially the player
who spilled coffee on my 2300AD player's book).

I am willing to pay postage and will pay by check.  If you prefer
moneyorder, please say so.

The List:

Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients
Best of the Journal: 1-4
Best of the Journal: 5-8
Best of the Journal: 9-12
Best of the Journal: 13-16
Journal 17

(Now, if you have Journals 1-16 and are willing to sell them at a good
price, I will go for that too, but I prefer the Best of's, because I just
don't have the room)

Supplement 13:Veterans
Exotic Atmospheres (did this see print?)
Alien Modules 2,3,5,6(Solomani),7(Hivers),8(Darrians)
Alien Realms (did this see print?  Might be one of the modules, not sure)

Fasa Adventures:
Ordeal by Eschaar
Action Aboard
Trail of the Sky Raiders
Fate of the Sky Raiders
Rescue on Galatea
Uraqyad'n of 7 Pillars

Fasa Magazines:
High Passage 1,2,3
Far Traveller 2


Digest Group Publications:
Traveller's Digest 5

Gamelords:
Undersea Environment
Desert Environment
Duneraiders
Startown Liberty
Ascent to Anekthor
Drenslaar Quest
Wanted: Adventurers
Lee's Guide
Pilot's Guide to Drexilthar Sector

*End of List*


If you have the Fasa Adventures and/or the Best ofs and are willing to sell
them please respond quickly, for these are the items the "company" is
supppose to price for me.  I would love to tell them, "Sorry, but you took
so long that I bought them somewhere else"

Thanks,

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu

PS: If you know of a local store that has these please tell me their
number.

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4654
Date: 	Thu, 24 Sep 1992 20:08:33 -0400
From: tom@csvax1.ucc.ie
Subject: Silly questions?

I have a few questions re Traveller to the wise people on this list that
probably have been discussed already, but since I can't get to the
archives I'm going to ask them.

1. Is it possible to make pure fusion warheads in Traveller? If so, how
   small can they be usefully made? As they presumably would not be
   affected by nuclear dampers they would be quite devastating.

2. Is it possible for a starship to refuel from ice? If so then any
   iceball can provide fuel, including comets and other pieces of
   junk at the fringes of a system.

3. What happens to the Megacorporations in the Rebellion? Do they
   split up? If so who gets to own them? This isn't a problem for the
   Vilani megacorps, but the others are diversified.

I expectantly await some answers
                                     Tom O'Neill
can

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4655
Date:    Fri, 25 Sep 1992 9:19:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: RE: Silly questions

Tom asked a couple questions I can answer, but as to Megacorps in the
Rebellion...  Well, I never used the Rebellion background.

}1. Is it possible to make pure fusion warheads in Traveller? If so, how
}   small can they be usefully made? As they presumably would not be
}   affected by nuclear dampers they would be quite devastating.

Yep.  They talk a bit about it in the Journal of the TAS issue 21 or
so in the Missiles Suppliment (I think).  I don't recall if they had
anything much to say except that the warheads cost something like
1MCr per kiloton yield.
(But that may be the same for fission warheads.  I may be wrong but I
think it might have been 10MCr.)

The problem with fusion warheads is that it is inconsistant with High
Guard combat.  Surely if you had warheads that could penetrate Dampers
you would use them in preference.  It would be more cost effective also
even at ten times the cost.  (When you consider how many salvoes get
wiped out by high powered nuclear dampers)

}2. Is it possible for a starship to refuel from ice? If so then any
}   iceball can provide fuel, including comets and other pieces of
}   junk at the fringes of a system.

Yep again.  I can recall a couple of published adventures that relied
on getting fuel from frozen ice asteroids, comets, etc.  But they don't
actually mention all the back breaking labor necessary to get all that
ice into the tanks.  Imagine filling those huge fuel tanks with picks
and axes and shovels?  Even under micro-gravity!  :-P  And you thought
shovelling the DRIVEWAY was bad...

2G Scott

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4656
Date: 26 Sep 92 08:35:28 EDT
From: Steve Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: More answers to silly questions

Scott (referring to Tom's):

>}1. Is it possible to make pure fusion warheads in Traveller? If so, how
>}   small can they be usefully made? As they presumably would not be
>}   affected by nuclear dampers they would be quite devastating.

>The problem with fusion warheads is that it is inconsistant with High
>Guard combat.  Surely if you had warheads that could penetrate Dampers
>you would use them in preference.  It would be more cost effective also
>even at ten times the cost.  (When you consider how many salvoes get
>wiped out by high powered nuclear dampers)

They cost the same as the older warheads, not ten times as much.  But
why do you assume that they are immune to nuclear dampers?  Dampers
either strengthen or weaken the strong nuclear force (depending on
whether you are in a node or anti-node, as I recall).  If you strengthen
the strong nuclear force enough, those fusion bombs should spontaneously
fuse at wherever they are (hopefully far from your ship).  If you weaken
it, they would be unable to fuse.  Either way, the damper should deal
with it.


>}2. Is it possible for a starship to refuel from ice? If so then any

>Yep again.  I can recall a couple of published adventures that relied
>on getting fuel from frozen ice asteroids, comets, etc.  But they don't
>actually mention all the back breaking labor necessary to get all that
>ice into the tanks.  Imagine filling those huge fuel tanks with picks
>and axes and shovels?  Even under micro-gravity!  :-P  And you thought
>shovelling the DRIVEWAY was bad...

You would use picks and shovels???  What happened to your laser cutters?
Your grav lifters?  You poor lads...
		
						 Steve
2G Scott

- ------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4657
Date: 26 Sep 92 08:52:05 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: How *MY* Gravitics work

        ...Hey, I like Grav!  I liked watching Luke Skywalker "drive"
his landspeeder around in Star Wars; I liked all the flitting around in
contra-gravity ships in H.Beam Piper's books (not to mention in Perry
Rhodan...); I accepted as part of the background the "grav sleds"
(probable ancestor of the air/raft) in Andre Norton's books (I note that
her ships land with rockets firing, though.)  The inconsistencies in MT
between vehicle use of gravitics and spaceship use of them bothered me,
so I came up with *my* (not warranted to work in your campaign)
explanation of why they worked the way they did.  I suspect the
physicists out there could pick holes in it, but -- it beats the "eighth
ray of propulsion" explanation!  (10 pts to whoever remembers where that
comes from!)

How Gravitics & Thrusters Really Work

        Both spaceship drives and vehicle propulsion modules work on the
same principle -- that of a gravity warp.  This is an artificially
generated gravitional field that can be used for propulsion by "gravity
planing" -- that is, changing the vector of the artificially generated
field to "play off" the local natural gravity field to obtain the
"thrust" vector desired.

        Spaceship Drives - the warp encloses the entire volume of the
ship; this has the advantage that the ship's mass does not affect the
size and power requirements for the maneuver drive.  It has the
disadvantage that a very strong, shielded hull is required because of
the stresses created at the boundary of the warp; for safety reasons,
the boundary of the warp must be within the thickness of the hull.  A
badly adjusted warp field, whose boundary is at or near the surface of
the hull can result in some spectacular electromagnetic effects.
(Classic UFO effects on nearby electronics).

        Vehicle Propulsion Modules - The warp encloses a small slug of
high-strength material inside the module, that is anchored to the
module.  Whatever thrust vector the "slug" has, pulls the vehicle along
with it.  Advantages: Vehicle does not require a reinforced hull; and
standard propulsion module designs have sufficient safety margins that a
badly tuned warp field will not manifest outside the module.
Disadvantages: Since the warp only encloses the slug, performance is
dependent on the vehicle's mass.

                              -- Cynthia



------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4658

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4659
Date: 	Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:24:15 -0400
From: tom@csvax1.ucc.ie
Subject: More on fusion fire and ice


Fusion warheads:
       As regards nuclear dampers affecting pure fusion warheads,
it depends on how these work as opposed to fusion power plants. Such
warheads would have to be uncontrolled fusion reactors (as conventional
explosives will not be able to conceivably reach the required temperatures
and pressures). Until the reactor is actually triggered, nothing happens.
A nuclear damper stops fission warheads because it turns the unstable
heavy elements in it to lead. The fuel is zapped.

The old fuel problem now raises its ugly head - what would be used to
fuel a pure fusion weapon? What does a nuclear damper to to low-number
unstable isotopes like Deuterium and Tritium? There is no indication that
dampers have ANY effect on fuel in starships, and such warheads could use
the same fuel, even if it means a bigger weapon. If dampers could stop fusion
reactions this would have been mentioned, as it would be quite important.
(Nuclear damper spinal mounts? The mind boggles).

A possible out is that a pure fusion bomb would have to be very large, as
it would have to fuse a significant amount of fuel in it's brief operating
lifetime. In effect, it would be a very high-yield fusion power plant.
Such devices would have limited utility if they had to be the size of
starship power plants to have a useful yield. Difficult for point-defences
to miss :-). This would explain why they are not used. However, they would
make nice mines(one multi-gigaton bomb can spoil your whole day).

Ice refuelling:
                While going out and mining ice is perfectly possible, whether
with lasers or with axes and hard labour, there could be an easier solution.
One thing starships do not lack is power. So just radiate some heat and
melt the ice before pumping it in. A giant electric blanket could do this and
prevent the water from escaping. If the ice is on a significant body like a
planet things are even simpler - starship weaponry can melt a lot of ice,
if messily. However, Scott and Steve, your methods are much healthier from
the exercise point of view, so you can keep on digging :-).

By the way, in my part of damp, rainy Ireland fortunately snow and ice are
pretty rare. Maybe the only good thing about the weather over here.

                                                    Tom.

------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4660
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 13:51:17 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: How Gravitics Work

Cynthia Higginbotham writes:
> so I came up with *my* (not warranted to work in your campaign)
> explanation of why they worked the way they did.  I suspect the
> physicists out there could pick holes in it, but -- it beats the "eighth
> ray of propulsion" explanation!  (10 pts to whoever remembers where that
> comes from!)

From Armageddon:2249 (the original Buck Rogers novel)?  I'm not sure,
but that's my guess.  If not, this is another early SF reference to
antigravity.

> How Gravitics & Thrusters Really Work
>
> [Cynthia's good description deleted in the interests of preserving
>  that endangered species, the rare net.bandwidth                  ]

OK, Good!  Now, what about artificial gravity and intertial damping
within spacecraft?


wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 389
Archive-Message-Number: 4661
Date:    Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:02:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: Computers and Virii

Bryan, if you see fit, please forward this to GDW.

Hey folx,

I just read through the bit in Challenge 64, on the new computer
stuff they put in there, and I thought I'd give ya'll my reaction
as one of the TML's leading rabid and emotional technophiles.

Well, as I read it, the Imperials developed what essentually
amounts to a CPU which is far superior to all previous ones.  It
makes the synaptic units from book 8 look like low grade morons.
These things are put up as true artificial intelligence (greater
than human), which was previously only possible with massive
synaptic and parallel brains.   Sounds pretty damn neat.  I would
imagine that all the Imperial Roboticists would be screaming for a
chance to look at em.   (I can think of one in particular with a
*very* loud voice... :-)

After all, it's been well established that artificial intelligence
is really only possible at Tech Level 17.  (Remember Book 3: Worlds
and Adventures?  Kinunir?  101 Robots?  Book 8: Robots? etc. etc.)
So, given this little beastie's applications to artificial
intelligence, you'd think it's first applications would be toward
robots or ship computers right?

Ok, now how Does the Imperium go ahead and use this beastie?  For
super-intelligent robots?  No...  Hyper-intelligent starship
computers for the vast hugely expensive Imperial Naval Fleets?
No...  Ok, where *DO* they get used?

Starship Transponders?  Well, Ok.  I can see they would be useful
there, but they would be VITAL elsewhere.

To paraphrase Colin:  (Re: neutrino detectors) If I were an
Imperial Admiral, that was handed a computer chip that can do all
the advertized, the last thing I would think of would be ship
transponders.

On top of that, these chips were sold to Imperial *ENEMIES*.  The
article mentions that the Sword Worlds got 'em, the Solomani?  the
Zhodani?  GEEZ!  The Imperials must be insane to sell something
THIS hot to their enemies.  Especially their competetors.  Now, Ok,
I admit the system has some fail safe devices in it to prevent
tampering, but there is NO way you could prevent the groups like
the Hivers, Solomani, Zhodani, et al from getting inside and
figuring them out.  It's just not possible that they could get past
everybodies science research teams.   And when the Hivers get their
tentacles on these babies...  AI Bruiser warbots?  Watch out!

I see some heavy duty changes in robotics steming from this.  Now,
Dumbots will be the exception rather than the rule.  And since the
chips are self reproducing, I expect the price of robot brains and
computers to plummet.

Now as Metlay said, this is what is called a 'retcon', and I don't
particularly care for it.  It changes the whole picture of robotics
delvelopment and stuff.  Now, an AI brain ought to be of basically
negligible cost, after all, these transponders were never assigned
any price or weight or volume in a system which is so detailed we
include the price of HEADLIGHTS for heaven's sake.

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 390  4662 27-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  TML Public/Private? << Ladies and Gentl
 390  4663 27-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 5 Part
 390  4664 27-Sep-1992 "Lord Krieg"     Gravitics << Cynthia Higginbotham asked
 390  4665 28-Sep-1992 CS171308011@UTS  The Iceman Cometh << Bryan, you may for
 390  4666 28-Sep-1992 Tony L. Hayes    Fussion Warheads << As I recall, all of
 390  4667 28-Sep-1992 Dan's Traveller  Stutterwarp << I am not that familiar w
 390  4668 28-Sep-1992 "Carl Fago"      Re: TML Public or Private << The TML is

------------------------------

Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4662
Date:    Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:03:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: TML Public/Private?

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am concerned about the effect of GDW having full and free access
to the TML.  In my opinion, the TML is not indeed a public forum.
It is a private list by subscription only.  Perhaps someone could
correct me if I am in error, but I believe that the TML charter
says that it is indeed a private list.

I have in the past year, considered the TML as such.  I have felt
that the membership of the TML was not the public at large, but a
group of friends.  I personally consider the TML community to be
composed of my friends.  Now while I may not be friends with each
and every individual, I have talked with most of the more vocal
members, and consider them to be my friends.

There are those who have described the TML as a public forum.  I
disagree.  However, I am not about to force my definition of the
TML on anyone who feels that way.  The private/public definition is
one which is debatable.

However, I would like to make a request.

For the convenience of those who feel this to be a private list,
I would ask that those who disagree to have consideration for those
who do.  Now, if we see this as a private list, then what is said
here is said, more or less, in confidence.  Therefore, if something
is then being sent on to a third party, that is something of a
breach of trust.  The only honorable course of action is therefore
to request permission to pass letters along.  I did not think that
this was necessary before, but in view of recent events, I do see
it so now.

So, I would ask that if the TML members wish to have their comments
forwarded on to GDW via Mr. Borich, that they put a note to that
effect into the body of the letter.  If such a note does not
appear, please do not forward that particular message.

Bryan, at least in my case, I would ask you that any message from
me not go on to GDW unless I specifically ask that you do.  If in
the future, you read a message from me that you think ought to be
passed on to GDW, please ask my permission first.

If GDW wishes to interact fully with the TML, I suggest that they
subscribe to it on their own.  Thus far, I have not seen much
appreciable interest on GDW's part other than Loren Wiseman's
comments.  His comments and insights I enjoy and look forward to.

I also feel that GDW should know the following about the TML should
they decide to continue to interact.  The TML has a characteristic
frankness to it's discussions.  The members are free to say what
they think and contribute what they like.  Yet, there are limits to
the language used, and obscenity, while not unknown, is the
exception rather than the rule.  To be honest, I am probably one of
the worse offenders on this count, as I tend to be somewhat
emotional and quick to react at times.  I don't make any apologies
for it, it's just my personality.
(Hey, there's more than one reason why I sign:  '2G Scott' :-)

However, while the discussions are frank, personal attacks and
flames are out of place here.

GDW may feel that they have been under attack by contributors to
the TML.  This is understandable considering some of what has been
said.  I however maintain that, despite the language used, the
comments are not at a personal level, but criticism of products.
It is akin to criticizing the government:  Lots of people may say
the US president is an idiot, but that is hardly a personal attack.

Now, the US president may feel otherwise, but it is not really
meant as such.

A certain amount of frustration has been voiced over GDW and
MegaTraveller.  This has generated a good deal of the friction.
But that friction is not really on a personal level.  I therefore
suggest that GDW not treat it as such.

Also, while I do not subscribe to GEnie I understand from those who
do that there are quite some differences between that and the TML.
GEnie, has some rather strict codes, while the TML has a looser
flavor.  It is however more restrained than the USENET News groups.

If GDW thinks that the TML community is rude, then I suggest you
take a look at some of the News groups.  We're pretty tame.

Scott 2G Kellogg
Bryan, if you feel that GDW would be interested in the above,
please forward it to them.  Thank you.^Z

------------------------------

Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4663
Date:    Sun, 27 Sep 1992 14:03:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 5 Part 2)

Copyright 1992, Scott Kellogg.  All rights reserved.
                      THE 4.5TH COLUMNISTS
                               by
                          Scott Kellogg
                            - XIII -
     Taek was annoyed.  The interrogation failed.  He made his way
back to the Space Winds with a bad taste in his mouth.  True, Jiel
was tasty enough, but what am I doing wandering around with all
these humans anyway?  Grah, sure, a little tumble now and then
never hurt anyone, but it seems that's all I've had lately.
     Don't want to be alone...  But there's no one to *really* talk
to...  Gresha?  Kaezorr?  Pleasant enough, but no real... *Soul*
there.  Tuerz?  Erf.  The little psychopath is kind of light on
understanding...  Besides, he's... well... *almost* male anyway...
And in any case, they all look *up* to me.  Not even close to an
equal...
     The only one with the kind of *soul* I want is maybe
Jietlshaiepr.  And she's *human*...  Furrrr...  And even then,
she's got Niedrsha anyway...  Furrr....
     Taek banished such thoughts from his mind.  Then, unbidden,
Gdeerzorr's scent crossed his mind.
                             - XIV -
     "Whezel Kiriat runs the worst hotel in the sector."
Jietlshaiepr inspected the rented room with a wrinkled nose.  The
glassless windows were boarded up with sheet rock and wood.  An
wasteful expensive proposition on a world without trees, but it
appeared to have come from the remains of smashed wooden furniture.
The mattress reeked of must and the blankets were misted with dust.
     A small sink stood in the corner which gurgled for seven
seconds before producing a thin trickle of orange water.
     A knock at the door produced Flamboyant's crew, with the
exception of Kfoks, all with similar stories of their
accommodations.
     "I have an urgent report." stated Vole.
     "Yes?" Shtam leaned down next to the robotic dog.
     "I have been monitoring all the people we have encountered.
With the exception of Jeff Ralampago, Whezel Kiriat, and Jiel
Kerreur all humans have had a body temperature of three hundred and
seven point four Kelvin."
     "So what?" asked Niedrsha.
     Jietlshaiepr's eyebrows knitted.  "Normal body temperature is
three hundred nine...  What about Gdeerzorr?"
     "Three hundred ten point eight."
     "That's normal Vargr body temp." nodded Tuerz.
     "Still," Shtam interrupted, "Racial variation and genetic
drift over..."
     "No...  No... Normal temperature ranges plus or minus one
degree.  One point six is much too low...  Admittedly, there are
minor human races with lower temperatures, but that results from
major genetic engineering."
     Kfoks entered quietly, ears alert, "Well, Jiel Kerreur is
human enough..."
     Niedrsha leered and raised an eyebrow, "Oh yeah?"
     Kfoks didn't react, "Quite human."
     "Learn anything?"
     Kfoks shook his head, "Nothing.  She didn't feel like talking
much.  However, while I didn't learn anything, I did teach her a
few things."  Taek turned away and thought to himself, "And perhaps
I learned something about myself..."
     Vole spoke again, "I must also point out that with the
exception of Whezel Kiriat, Jeff Ralampago and Gdeerzorr, all
humans thus far encountered have produced no psionic radiations."
     "Powerful psionics," thought Shtam aloud, "Were there any
variations in strength?"
     Vole considered the question, "Very little.  Jiel Kerreur gave
an extremely small psi shadow when I was within sixty centimeters
of her.  The others gave no detectable radiation whatsoever."
     "It is also of note that all humans except the aforementioned
ranged between one point nine nine, and two point two meters tall.
This is with a measurement error of plus or minus one centimeter.
Eighty percent were measured as being exactly two point one
centimeters tall."
     "What on Zhdant is going on here?"
                             - XV -
     Jietlshaiepr woke with a start at the sound of her name.
     "Huhhummmmmmm...?  What?" she whispered in the dark.
     Vole's voice came out of the dark, "Miakr's calling from the
ship."
     "Trouble?"
     "Maybe."
     Niedrsha rolled over.  "Huuuuuunnnnnnnnngggug?  Wha'sgoin'on?"
     Vole's voice was replaced by Miakr's played over Vole's vocal
circuits.  "Jietlshaiepr?  The exterior proximity alarm woke me.
There are several guys working on the scout ship All Nighter."
     "So?"
     "I played back the sensor log, one minute there's no movement
out there, then the densitometer says someone just appeared inside
the ship.  The main hatch opened up, and the woman you met:  Jiel
Kerreur opened the hatch.  She's let several others aboard.  The
ship's been refueled and the engines are powering up."
     Jiet sat up, yawned and gasped for breath to feed oxygen to
her sleep soaked brain, "Any sign of Ralampago or Gdeerzorr?"
     "That's just it, they're nowhere in sight."
     "Ok.  Just hold on, I'm going to try clairvoyance."
     Jietlshaiepr concentrated, remembering exactly where she was
in relation to the scout ship.  She began opening her mind to the
auras of things aboard the scout.  A vague picture of the bridge
built itself up...  Foggy images of the consoles came in:  no
details...  A figure in combat armor entered commands at the
terminal.
     Jietlshaiepr shook her head.  She wasn't seeing a true image,
it was just an educated guess.  Again she cleared her mind and
reached into space...
     Fog...
     Fog...
     "I'm too tired to get an image." she decided.  "What's the
densitometer say?  Any movement?"
     Miakr's voice came out of the darkness, "I read four moving
bodies aboard...  with the deck plans on screen...  One on the
bridge, two in the engine room and one in fire control...  Wait...
Outside pressure dropping...  They're cycling the docking bay...
Hold on, now I'm reading three on board.  Somebody just teleported
out."
     "Has the ship powered up yet?"
     "Full power.  Looks like an engine test run up...  The dock is
opening...  They're leaving."
     Niedrsha held one finger up in the air above the bed.  "Track
'em.  Don let 'em get away!"  He grabbed onto Jiet's negligee and
pulled her gently, albeit unceremoniously, back down on the bed.
     Niedrsha's voice dropped an octave and growled, "Now you," He
pointed at Vole, "Shaddup."
     "You," he pointed at Jiet accusingly, but his voice softened
with a tired smile, "Hol' still."
     He held her gently and laid his head down on her chest,
quickly finding the comfortable spot.
     "Niedrsha?" the sound of Jiet's whisper came strangely, his
right ear hearing it through the air, but his left was planted on
her ribcage.
     "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?"
     "I...  just used my psi..."
     "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm."
     Her hand went to his chest.  "I need to be full strength..."
     Niedrsha caught up her hand as it started to roam.  "Later.
'Kay?"
     "Okay." she nodded.
     Niedrsha smiled tiredly an nodded, his nose gently brushing
her nipple.
                             - XVI -
     Miakr shook his head.  "They flew around the planet and we
lost the densitometer image.  Then they powered down to minimum and
flew into the sun." He indicated the sensor playback.  They should
emerge right about here but they're just gone."
     Niedrsha banged his fist on the bulkhead.  "You're sure the
two crew weren't aboard?"
     "They weren't in the group that boarded the ship."
     "And you lost 'em."
     Miakr looked defensive, "Well, we know the ship's still in
system:  no sign of any jump activity."
     Niedrsha shook his head "What the fuck is going on?"
     Shtam studied the sensor tape "Well, it might have been a
captured ship being dropped off to a contact..."
     "Meaning Jiel Kerreur is one of them." thought Jietlshaiepr
aloud.  "But where is every body?  There ought to be a thousand
inhabitants here..."
     "It all seems pretty mysterious." agreed Shtam.
     Jietlshaiepr frowned and shook her head "Right.  This is
getting us nowhere.  We've got to find the base.  Back to our
prospecting cover."
                            - XVII -
     Although we hunted high and low,
     and hunted everywhere,
     of the three men's fate
     we found no trace
     in any time,
     in any place:
     but a door ajar,
     and an untouched meal,
     and an over toppled chair.    -Wilfred Gibson

     Niedrsha brought the Air/Raft down to rest on the mining hut's
tiny landing pad.  The hut was fairly exposed:  in the center of a
large crater plain three kilometers in diameter.  The dust around
the hut was flattened with foot prints.  With no air to stir the
dust, the plain would remain trampled for eternity.
     The giant, black petaled flower of a solar array overshadowed
the small bone white hut.  The black windows stared eyelessly over
the desolate crater.  The outer hatch of the airlock stood mutely
open like the dry mouth of a corpse.
     An ATV lay jacked up on its side, where one of the road wheels
was damaged.  A tool kit lay nearby.  Exploration drilling
equipment was set up in various places.
     "Anybody home?" called Jietlshaiepr on her vac suit radio.
     Static answered.
     She scanned the desolation with binoculars while Niedrsha
climbed out SMG in hand.
     "Too quiet." he muttered.  "Like a damn crypt."
     Cautiously, they approached the hut's lock.  "Feel like
knocking?" asked Niedrsha.
     "Not particularly.  Let's go in."
     With clammy hands Niedrsha closed the outer hatch.  The
airlock controls lit up automatically.  A sudden tapping
transmitted through the floor as Jietlshaiepr hit the cycle button.
With some hesitation, the chamber filled with air.  Sensors
registered silently.
     "Breathable." mumbled Jietlshaiepr.
     Niedrsha cocked his SMG and activated its laser designator as
he undogged the inner hatch.
     The door opened on searing black heat.  A gloomy red tinge
glowed in the far corner as the tiny green spot of the helium neon
designator laser swept rapidly across the room.
     Jietlshaiepr hit the light.  Clothes lay scattered across the
floor, a tray of food sat on the table.  Niedrsha stepped inside.
     "This food's nearly fossilized."  a coffee mug sat nearby with
black stain in the bottom of it.
     "Somebody left the oven on." nodded Jietlshaiepr.
     They left hurriedly.
     A mining laser stood by the landing pad with tiny lights
flashing on it.  Heavy cable connected it to the solar array.
     "Looks like it's still running." thought Niedrsha.  He glanced
at the ground beneath it:  a neatly drilled hole... several
kilometers deep.
                            - XVIII -
     Gresha stood by over the gig's sensors.  The additional ones
fitted from the VIXEN provided a peculiar mix, and they were rather
dubious to start with, but they did add the comfort of a neutrino
detector and densitometer.
     Shtam cruised the gig a bare five meters over the rocky
surface.  Jutting above the plain, the shattered dome of the
abandoned fighter base hove into view.
     The base was in ruins.  Prefabricated huts dotted the dusty
surface like cracked eggs.  A large antenna tower had toppled
smashing through several huts and strewing pieces over the surface.
Laser rents in the dome wrote the story of the last battle here
twenty years ago while blast marks from shaped charges provided the
punctuation.
     "Got a radiation reading..." cautioned Gresha.  "High:  LD
ninety four outside.  Even with the hull armor, we better git and
fast!"
     "I am not anxious to get too close." announced Shtam, "Vole,
are you reading any neural activity?"
     "Nothing in my range." he answered.
     "I got some neutrino activity." declared Gresha. "Radiation's
getting worse.  We're too close!"
     "From the base?" asked Shtam, "With the high level of
radiation...  Well, anything emitting that much radiation will
effect the sensors well....  Estimated power output?"
     "Fourteen point two megawatts?  Can't tell, radiation's
playing havoc.  Levels aren't stable."
     "Densitometer?"
     Gresha's ears folded flat "Get us out of here!  It's LD twenty
Inside ship!"
     Shtam growled "Densitometer, *DAMMIT!*  We have to find that
fucking base!"
     Surprised by Shtam's sudden uncharacteristic temper, Gresha
refocused on the display, "Urr...  No movement...  Can't really see
much with this old thing...  Not a lot of penetration...  I just
can't see anything."
     "Vole," called Shtam calmly, "Anything?"
     "Negative."
     "Right.  Now, we go get some radiation serum."
                             - XIX -
     Jietlshaiepr checked the osmotic pressure injector and sent
the dose into Shtam's arm.  "Well son, looks like you'll be
alright...  Now just relax, the adrenalin in this mix will probably
blow your mind, but the sedative in it ought to knock you out for
a while.  You may want to keep an eye on your hair.  If it does go,
it'll grow back, but you may be a bit greyer."
     "How is Gresha doing?"
     "Not great.  High blood pressure...  Nausea...  She's asleep
now.  She's gonna be out of it for a while, but she'll make it Ok.
I just hope she doesn't lose too much fur.  I never heard of a
Vargr toupee..."
                             - XX -
     Kfoks studied the gig's sensor display as Tuerz flew in a low
orbit five kilometers from the airless surface of Zylath.
     "Where the fuck are they?" growled Tuerz.
     Kfoks sighed, "I still can't find any trace of neutrino
emission other than what we've found already...  They must be using
photocells..."
     "What about the active EMS?"
     "We can pick out refined metal, it just has to be in pretty
close range.  This whole planet is made out of metal ores..."
     Kfoks squinted at the display.  "Contact."
                             - XXI -
     The mining hut stood half buried under the sand.  It's dark
windows looking out at the black sky while the sun beat down
mercilessly washing out all of the stars and peeling the paint off
the sides of the hut.  Sand was heaped up high over the structure
to provide extra insulation, and shade from the suns radiation.  An
ATV stood close by, parked in the open, its tracks leading off
across the desert plain.
     The whole area was beaten down with foot prints leading into
and out of the shelter, around the ATV and out into the plains.
     Kfoks and Tuerz crept up to the airlock with guns drawn.
Tuerz's custom laser pistol plugged into a battery back pack, while
Kfoks held his gauss rifle, glad of the weight of the fusion gun on
his back.
     Tuerz flattened himself against the bulkhead while Kfoks
reached for the hatch dogs.  Slowly, he rotated the hatch wheel.
Through the gauntlets of his battle dress he felt the vibration of
the wheel rotating.  Suddenly, the wheel jammed.
     Kfoks keyed the bone induction scrambled transmitter in his
skull "The hatch is locked."
     Tuerz eyes narrowed.  "These huts don't have locking hatches
on the outside.  Designed to allow emergency access to the airlock.
Jammed from inside."
     "Ok..." Kfoks slung the rifle and braced himself.  The wheel
came to the jam and the battle dress strength enhancement servos
came on.  The servos keyed up their normal power as Kfoks strained
as the dogs began to creak.  Quickly, Kfoks brought up the servos
to full power override and the wheel spun with a snap.
     The hatch swung outward and lights came on inside the airlock.
A bent and broken wrench was on the floor matching the bent and
broken wheel of the hatch's inner dogs.
     The indicators read that the base was pressurized and...
     Kfoks leaped out of the lock as the inner hatch wheel spun.
     The hatch crashed open crushing the inside of the airlock
propelled by nearly thirty tons of air.  A white typhoon howled out
of the lock, water vapor condensing and freezing in the vacuum.
     The radio growled, "Walk through that lock and you're dead."
     From cover, Kfoks focused the fusion gun on the airlock.
Nothing moved inside the black cavern of the mining hut.
     Tuerz hackles rose inside his armor.  "Blast a hole in the
side of the hut, fire a few shots in, and then rush the airlock!"
     "Wait, hold on..." Kfoks peered at the open hatch way.  A
black hole against a glaring back ground.  One step into the door
and you'd be silhouetted.
     A radio aerial stood on top of the hut.  Kfoks ripped it off
with a blast of the fusion gun.
     "All right in there." growled Kfoks over the radio.  "Your
radio is down.  There'll be no calling to your friends.  Come on
out with your hands up."
     "Give up?" strained the growing voice, "I've killed too many
of you grsharrks to be afraid of you.  Come on.  Put your teeth
where your tongue is."
     "Gveg?" wondered Kfoks.  "Gdeerzorr is that you?"
     "What do you think?  Now keep back!"
     Kfoks switched languages, much better to talk in one's native
tongue.  "This is Kfoks of the Miscat Zhje Gorrne.  We moored along
side your ship.  We were both at that stupid bar."
     "What...?" confusion and fatigue sounded in her voice.  "Drop
yer weapons and come inside..."
     Kfoks thought for a moment.  Battle dress couldn't conceal his
weapons, but by itself was weapon enough.  He disconnected the
fusion gun and laid the gauss rifle aside.
     Once inside the battle dress lit the interior with active
infrared.  Gdeerzorr lay on the floor with a gauss rifle leveled on
him.  Her vac suit was seared with burn marks and covered with suit
patches.  Detonator wires lay at her side leading to the airlock.
     "So you're one of them." she growled weakly.
     "One of who?"
     "Them!"
     "Who the hell are they?" growled Kfoks.
     "How the fuck should I know?" she shot back.
     "Look we came here to do a mining survey..."
     "With battle... dress and... fusion guns?" Gdeerzorr's voice
was getting weaker.
     Kfoks tensed invisibly, "Who attacked you?"
     "Don't know...  They just...  We tried to find... Jeff's
brother.  They followed... fired, and we... got out..." Gdeerzorr
was fading fast.
     In a blur, Kfoks was at her side examining the vac suit's
readouts.  Pressure low, high carbon dioxide, obvious heavy wounds
under the suit patches, made untouchable inside the sealed vac
suit.  "Tuerz get in here, fast."
     "...Find brother..." She slumped.
     Tuerz appeared.  His gun surveyed the room.
     Kfoks positioned himself to lift her.  "Support her legs.
Gotta keep her immobile.  We'll move her to the gig."
     "We should secure her limbs to prevent compli..."
     "No time.  Suit's down to zero."
                            - XXII -
     Once in the gig Tuerz cut Gdeerzorr out of the suit.  He made
a quick examination and put her in the emergency low berth.  Her
heart stopped fourteen seconds before she went into the deep
freeze.
     "That's gonna be one hell of a hospital bill." sighed Tuerz.
"Third degree burns...  looks like some small shrapnel in the
chest...  I'm not sure but I think she's got an unexploded HE round
in the lower abdomen."
     "Handle with care." thought Kfoks aloud.
     "She can't sit with that in there.  It's gonna have to come
out."
     "Can you do it?"
     "No.  She's dead.  To get it out we'll have to raise the
temperature and that'll blow any chance of reviving her without
proper facilities."
     "Then she'll just have to sit in cold storage till we find a
good enough hospital."
     "With a bomb inside her?" Tuerz ears flattened, "That's crazy!
I say we dump her."
     Kfoks fixed Tuerz eye, "*No*."
                            - XXIII -
     "This is stupid!" sighed Jietlshaiepr.  "Why did they attack
those two?  They weren't a threat!"
     Kfoks thumbed through Gdeerzorr's wallet.  "Nothing makes
sense around here.  Tuerz went back in the air/raft to see if he
could find anything more."
     "Damn right, but where do we go from here?" asked Niedrsha.
     "Any suggestions?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     "Mmmm." Kfoks produced a photograph out of the wallet.
     Jietlshaiepr took the picture, a short, dark, balding man aged
about forty. "Miguel Ralampago...  I think it's time we paid a
visit to the next of kin."
                            - XXIV -
     The tall dark man answered, "Oh, I'm afraid my brother's left
system.  Tight schedule he's got you see, I gather he had to make
a payment on his ship.  I think he's behind on them, but he's too
embarrassed to tell me."
     "So much for the drinks." sighed Jietlshaiepr, "Thanks
anyway."
     After they had walked a fair distance Niedrsha breathed
quietly, "Why the fuck would somebody impersonate a simple
machinist?"
                             - XXV -
     Kfoks strolled calmly into the Zylath Solarium.  Sunlight
streamed through the huge glass dome overhead blotting out the
dimmer stars in the stellar panorama.  Chairs, tables and umbrellas
testified to the desire of humans to lie under a sun whither or not
it was a real beach or not.
     Jiel Kerreur lay basking on her stomach, paging though a
magazine.  The snow white bikini she wore accentuated her deep
bronze tan.
     "You must be the toast of Zylath." announced Kfoks.  Then he
thought to himself, "No wonder she popped up golden brown
before..."
     "Hello Taek." she smiled seductively.  Jiel tossed her hair
over her shoulder and cocked her head.  "Is there something I can
do for you?"  She rolled onto her back and smiled impishly.
     "Why yes, there is..."  Kfoks sat down beside her and stroked
his hand across her stomach and up to her full breasts.  Softly, he
hooked a finger around the strap of her bikini top as she stretched
to kiss him.  "There's something I'd like you to get off your
chest..."
     With a quick twist, the brassiere was around her throat as he
garroted her.  "...What exactly is going on here?"
     Jiel's eyes bulged as her mouth opened soundlessly.
     "Speak up dear, I can't hear you."
     He was cut short by the butt of a gauss pistol on the back of
his skull.
                            - XXVI -
     Rackan's cabin was deserted.  A half empty drink stood by the
bunk and the sheets were mussed up.  No sign of struggle, just an
empty room.
     Niedrsha stepped into the room surveying it at a glance.  "I
checked Kaezorr's cabin:  gone."
     "Struggle?" demanded Jietlshaiepr.
     "None."
     Jietlshaiepr shook her head, "But what...  Oh shit!"  She
turned and ran for the ladder.  Sick bay was on the upper deck with
two patients....
     Sick bay empty.
     Shtam and Gresha gone.
     Jietlshaiepr hit the intercom.  "We've got problems folks."
She surveyed her ward.  At least, here she'd notice what was out of
place.
     Patients gone...  Instruments still in place...  Both I.V.'s
gone...  diagnostic records gone...  Holo-computer link metabolic
monitors disconnected and thrown aside...
     Somebody was in a hurry.  Teleports... must be.
     But they took them alive...
     The ward blurred quickly and disappeared.  The cold metal of
her battle dress replaced the soft film of her dress.  She nudged
the power switch with her chin and the armor came to life.  Sensors
came on line and the dim ship's locker came alive through the holo
projecting heads up display of the armor.
     The fusion gun came on line and began to suck power from its
personal cauldron of fire in the fusion back pack.
     Quickly, Jietlshaiepr switched the power leads to a plasma
gun.  The fusion gun would rip through a bulkhead.  If possible,
she'd rather keep Flamboyant in one piece.
     Niedrsha and Miakr sat on the floor strapping on the leg armor
to their battle dress as Jietlshaiepr emerged from the armor locker
growling, "Get your ass in gear, they..."
     A grenade flew down the corridor.
     Instinctively, she jumped and kicked it back to its sender.
Combat armor, Zhodani, tech level twelve, registered instantly in
her mind.  Her arm came up wielding the plasma gun.
     The grenade detonated back by it's thrower spewing light green
tranq over the passage way.  Her finger burned on the trigger of
the plasma gun but Niedrsha was just too close and not fully in
armor.  The armored figure dove for cover as Jietlshaiepr drew her
gauss pistol and sprayed the corridor.
     Vole leaped down the corridor in hot pursuit in long bounds
with legs driving like pistons, his laser designator fixed on the
spot where the figure disappeared.  Suddenly, in mid leap he
stopped and fell to the ground.  His heavy metal bulk fell to the
ground in a lifeless frozen statue.
     Miakr screamed as a section of his mind shut down, half of his
senses went out like a light switch.
     Two grenades came skittering down the passage and splashed
green tranq over Jietlshaiepr's armor.
     Miakr's eyes filled with tears as the DMSO and tranquilizer
stung his face and then it suddenly went numb.
     Niedrsha felt it hit his sleeves and slowly soak through the
material to touch his unprotected skin.  Grabbing his gauss rifle
he rolled and fired a grenade down the passage as the muscles in
his arms went limp.  The grenade bounced off the wall as the rocket
charge propelled it onward, bouncing off the walls like a pinball.
A second later his vision was gone as blackness enveloped him.
     Jietlshaiepr cursed as she ducked from the blast that shredded
the crew lounge.  A second later she teleported into the lounge
with the gauss pistol barking to enforce the shock.
     The quarry was gone.
     Teleported to where they could...
     She glanced back up the corridor to where she'd been.
Niedrsha and Miakr down.  Two bastards in combat armor.
     Suddenly, she was behind one of them.  Her fist, clad in a
bonded superdense gauntlet, crashed through the helmet scattering
brains over the walls and floor.  Her gauss pistol coughed spraying
needles into the chest of the second.
     Gauss needles splattered around the room deflected by the
contours of the combat armor as the wearer was thrown back by the
impact.  It brought up a combat rifle firing on automatic.
Discarding sabot ripped her armor, buckling and tearing the metal
on her right arm and chest and shredding the flesh beneath while
slimy green tranq ended the burst with a sticky sickening thump.
     Tranquilizer blocked the pain of the ripped flesh.  As
blackness enfolded her brain she fought to focus her mind for
psionic regeneration.

------------------------------

Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4664
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:40:00 PST
From: "Lord Krieg" <cvadsaav@CSUPomona.Edu>
Subject: Gravitics

Cynthia Higginbotham asked about the source of the "eigth ray of propulsion".
I think it came from the "Mars" novels by Edgar Rice Burroughs, although I'm
not certain that I'm correct. The ray in the "Mars" novels (whatever it was
called) was pretty odd--sort of like helium or hydrogen, really. Airships had
tanks full of the stuff, and this kept them aloft. When somebody shot a hole
in the tank (happened all the time), the ships would lose altitude.

The ray used in _Armageddo 2249_ wasn't exactly antigravIt was more like
a pressor beam. Craft used several beam projectors, which acted somewhat like
stilts--the ships "walked" on top of the beams. Ships could be brought down
by firing explosive rockets into the beams, which upset the ship andde it
crash.

                                    Lord Krieg

Internet: cvadsaav@csupomona.edu
America Online: Empr Krieg


------------------------------

Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4665
Date:    Mon, 28 Sep 1992 9:22:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: CS171308011@UTSA86.UTSA.EDU
Subject: The Iceman Cometh

Bryan, you may forward this to GDW if you feel they'd be interested,
but I kinda doubt it.

Hmmm,

Tom suggests a giant electric blanket or just a warm starship hull
for melting ice.  (Kinda reminds me of 'The Thing')  Well, that's
fine, as long as you've got a planet with an atmosphere, to work
on but it's not really applicable to work in asteroids.  (No gravity,
no atmosphere)

Steve was talking about using laser cutters, and grav lifters to mine
ice.  Well, ice, being transparent is probably not quite so easy to
melt with lasers, but not certainly not impossible.  However, grav
lifters, and mining equipment cost money.  They certainly aren't
standard equipment aboard any starship *I've* ever let my players
aquire.  After all, mining ice is certainly not the easiest way of
fueling up, and is kind of a last resort in my book.  Anyone who doesn't
have the equipment is going to have to think twice about going into a
system where the only fuel source is ice...

I can think of all sorts of nasty mishaps for unprepared players... |->

2G Scott
"He's turned himself into a hideously deranged mutant killer monster
SNOW GOON!"  -- Calvin

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Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4666
From: hayes@ll.mit.edu (Tony L. Hayes)
Subject: Fussion Warheads
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 10:42:46 -0400

As I recall, all of our fusion warheads require a fission warhead to
generate the proper enviroment for the fusion explosion (ie enough
heat/pressure).  Therefore, since a damper will render inert fission
warheads, the trigger mechinism for the fusion warhead is disabled
hence no big boom!

If, as someone suggested, you took a powerplant set for overload
and used it as a bomb that would be different.  I would also be
an extremely easy target to remove from space (IMHO).

Just my 2 cents worth for what its worth.

Tony

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Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4667
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 15:32:46 EDT
From: Dan's Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Stutterwarp


I am not that familiar with the stutterwarp tech. What would happen
if one was to fire a sandcaster in the path of a stuterwarp ship.
When It went to materialize in the cloud of sand what sort of problems
would it have (if any).


			-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)

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Bundle: 390
Archive-Message-Number: 4668
Date: 	Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:31:00 -0400
From: "Carl Fago" <CDF1@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: TML Public or Private

The TML is just as public as any other magazine and as such, should not be
considered "private" mail.  Anyone can subscribe.  Porting over portions
or whole bundles to those that do not have subscription capability is, in
essence, a subscription.

Scott, while I supported you against Chadwick, I think you need to rethink
this "private" idea.  As a matter of fact, GEnie has Internet Email
capability so that GDW or its reps might already be subscribers.  If you
have something to say which is private in nature, send it to specific
inidividuals, not the List.

 *-=Carl=-*  INTERNET - cdf1@psuvm.psu.edu    | Be wary of strong drink.     |
             DELPHI - WULFGAR  GEnie - C.FAGO1| It can make you shoot at tax |
 Carl Fago   State College, PA                | collectors -- and miss!      |

------------------------------
